What's the diffence between disturbing imagery / nightmare?

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HAGART
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What's the diffence between disturbing imagery / nightmare?

Postby HAGART » 22 Jun 2013 19:46

I was discussing this with Mia and DeltaV on another thread and felt it needed it's own.

Sometimes we see gruesome and disturbing images in dreams, pre-dream, post-dream, and of course, lucid dreams.

Although not scary they can be very disturbing. There is a difference between scary and gruesome. We all enjoy a little violence in movies, but were you scared pantless? NO. There are gruesome/comedies too! What we see, no matter how disturbing, doesn't always evoke strong, scary emotions.

On the other hand, there are nightmares. The emotion is much different and it is one of paranoia in my opinion. You feel like something is out to get you and with our dream minds, we tend to give it a form deep from within our subconscious and it tends to become an archetype like demons, monsters, or ghosts. The sleep paralysis state tends to feel this way even if you don't see anything at all, but it can create all those archetypes I just mentioned including aliens! Doesn't matter what you see, the emotion and paranoia is real!


So that's the premise for this and there is no single answer nor is there a single question, but I want to emphasize the discussion of dark, disturbing imagery without the nightmare feelings.: Why do we see disturbing imagery? What is a nightmare really when you think about it? Do you ever see disturbing images without feeling scared? Should dark imagery be avoided or accepted?

Join the discussion and share your thoughts!
Last edited by HAGART on 22 Jun 2013 20:04, edited 3 times in total.
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DreamerMan99
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Re: What's the diffence between disturbing imagery / nightma

Postby DreamerMan99 » 22 Jun 2013 19:51

Pre dream imagry i frequently see are gruesome/scary, such as millions of eyes staring back at me. Am i scared though? No. Im fascinated. During a nightmare, i feel actual feelings. Am i scared? Im scared shitless! This is why i think LD is so important. It opens so many doorways.

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mia
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Re: What's the diffence between disturbing imagery / nightma

Postby mia » 22 Jun 2013 20:29

There's a role for gruesome imagery though. It played a very important role in the original fairy tales. Fairy-tale imagery seems to originate, like dreams, out of the subconscious. I'm afraid I've always thought that Disney did a great disservice to the power and importance of the original fairy tales by reducing them to those 'big-eyed' sanitized toddler's versions. Like with our dream imagery, the frightening side is an important expression, and maybe we need to synthesize 'the dark side' and not hide from it. I don't know. Is it our physical manifestation that we are exploring with this ( the physical; the body, after all is flesh; muscle, meat, bone; heir to decay, deterioration, harm, and death)?

I've experienced dreams that involved unspeakably gruesome images; and have viewed them with detachment. I've also encountered the nightmares, and I think I agree with Hagart's take on those.
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HAGART
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Re: What's the diffence between disturbing imagery / nightma

Postby HAGART » 22 Jun 2013 20:55

mia wrote:It played a very important role in the original fairy tales. Fairy-tale imagery seems to originate, like dreams, out of the subconscious. I'm afraid I've always thought that Disney did a great disservice to the power and importance of the original fairy tales by reducing them to those 'big-eyed' sanitized toddler's versions.


Disney has a huge impact on the youth of western culture. Animations are a great way to delve into deep archetypes, but Disney puts a wholesome spin on it.

Another great culture that creates beautiful animation is Japan. They don't shy away from dark imagery! They have embraced it. I am still thinking about that movie I saw last week, Paprika! Excellent animated movie about dreams! (For an adult audience. Not Disney PG)

Dreams aren't always rainbows and sunshine with unicorns frolicing are they? That would be BORING!
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mia
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Re: What's the diffence between disturbing imagery / nightma

Postby mia » 22 Jun 2013 21:15

Paprika - sounds interesting. Wonder if I can find it somewhere.

Yes, Disney. I'm afraid I just usually find his animations overly saccharin, rather than wholesome. A little too 'cleaned up' I think, and therefore vacuous. Even kids deserve a little more depth than that. That's just me though.
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DeltaV
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Re: What's the diffence between disturbing imagery / nightma

Postby DeltaV » 22 Jun 2013 21:24

mia wrote:I'm afraid I've always thought that Disney did a great disservice to the power and importance of the original fairy tales by reducing them to those 'big-eyed' sanitized toddler's versions.

You want a fairytale-ish story that keeps the nightmarish elements? Watch Pan's Labyrinth.

HAGART wrote: I am still thinking about that movie I saw last week, Paprika! Excellent animated movie about dreams! (For an adult audience. Not Disney PG)

I had seen a bit of it a few years ago. I want to watch it now :lol:
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HAGART
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Re: What's the diffence between disturbing imagery / nightma

Postby HAGART » 22 Jun 2013 22:22

I posted a topic about Paprika in the, OFF TOPIC section, coincidentally called, PAPRIKA with a free link to You Tube. It has some (I think, German) subtitles, but it was the best free version and you get what you pay for.

Pan's Labyrinth. Another fantastic movie that really gets you thinking and very dark, but dream like. I still think of that guy with eyes in his palms and how he views the universe. That's just me. Love that guy, no matter how disturbing it is.

BUT both these movies leave a lasting impression and have weird dream sequences.
Last edited by HAGART on 23 Jun 2013 15:48, edited 2 times in total.
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HAGART
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Re: What's the diffence between disturbing imagery / nightma

Postby HAGART » 22 Jun 2013 22:24

Back on focus though.
This was suppose to be about creepy imagery and is it normal, which it is, and i want to get back on track.
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mia
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Re: What's the diffence between disturbing imagery / nightma

Postby mia » 22 Jun 2013 22:39

Alright. Here's one. I was walking down a boardwalk with a DC. Then I saw a horrible scene of a 'farmer' (?) who was hanging a pig and letting him bleed. The poor creature was being 'swung' back and forth to make him bleed faster. Horrible! I did feel a sense of helplessness and revulsion for 'people' in that dream. I think the strongest feeling was shame. This stayed with me for a long time afterwards; it was hard to shake the feelings that had gone with it.
Later on, sometime after the dream, I recalled a long supressed memory from when I was a child living in a small village in Germany( my father was in the air force and we lived overseas for 6 years). I witnessed a farmer bleed a pig; it was shot in the neck with something, and as it died and the body convulsed, they held it over a large bathtub like thing to catch the blood. I think the dream imagery all those years later stemmed from that. Since recalling that memory, I'm still greatly disturbed when I think of it.
In another dream, I was on a bicycle riding around a long curve of a road. I saw a person 'take the head off' of a man with a knife. The head then rolled toward me on the road. In this one there was only a detached feeling of observation and curiosity as I avoided it on my bike.
Neither of these were lucid.
Jeeze.

By the way: LOVED Pan's Labyrinth. I thought it was a very important film.
The key to creativity is to remove the watchers from the gates, and realize how free you really are.

DreamerMan99
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Re: What's the diffence between disturbing imagery / nightma

Postby DreamerMan99 » 23 Jun 2013 00:57

. The worst dream i ever had, i was walking to school and I heard 4 gunshots. I ran home and i see a angry scary looking man with a rifle screaming, maniacally. When i saw what happened, my entire neighbors family was on there porch, bleeding out, ones head blown in half. It was disgustingly disturbing and i felt a strong feeling of dread and fear.

Another one I had was I was in my grandmas front yard with my brother and dad playing catch. We were super happy and having an awesome time, until we heard a low buzzing sound. My brother looked up, and we all watched it happen. A care package from the military fell on my brother and flattened him like a pancake. We watched the blood pool around the ground. We knew there was nothing we could do, so we just screamed and cried. I know it makes no sense, but it did because there is an army base 2 miles away so i figured It was a missdrop.

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