Newbie here. Feeling a bit discouraged.

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Sim B
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Re: Newbie here. Feeling a bit discouraged.

Postby Sim B » 04 Jul 2013 08:13

Evravon wrote:I tell myself every night before bed "I will have a lucid dream tonight and I will remember it in the morning."
I can't remember any of my dreams. When I wake up I lay there completely motionless for a good 10 minutes, just trying to recall something.

And these "mechanical" habits with my phone have only been going on for 2 days now. Two weeks prior to that I was doing reality checks on my own. I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. I was unable to lucid dream, so I read more about it and downloaded these apps. You're saying these apps are going to make it HARDER to lucid dream?

Also, what's the "Wake Back to Sleep" method?

EDIT: Your "homework" analogy was extremely confusing. I don't understand the analogy at all. Especially the part about showing your teacher copied homework. If I'm reading about lucid dreaming every day and practicing the techniques, that's cheating?


Ok my analogy was a bit over the top, but here goes:

All I'm trying to say is that you have to really believe in it. I know it's hard to grasp, but it simply works that way. I, for one, was making several reality checks a day a year ago, but now I know that I wasn't really doing them. I was doing them because it was my "homework" to do them, but while I did them, I wasn't really thinking about doing them, so it didn't help at all. Hence the cheating reference. Thus, I couldn't LD.

Same thing for remembering your dreams. Try focusing on how it would feel to wake up in the morning, and remembering your dreams, writing them down. Repeating a sentence in your mind can help, but it is, after all, just a sentence. You can't tell the brain what to remember, it will, simply, remember what it wants to remember. :)

Lastly, I'm not saying the apps will make it harder, nor did I imply it. Refer to my first point in this very post to understand further. These apps might remind you to reality check while you're in the middle of something important in your daily life, which might or might not be the right time.

In a link in this thread I saw a guy making the gym training analogy, as when you go to the gym, you start seeing results of your training pretty soon. It doesn't work that way with lucid dreaming, you don't get rewarded proportionally to your efforts. The brain works in mysterious ways. :)
"Focus on the journey, not the destination" - Greg Anderson, 1964

Evravon
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Re: Newbie here. Feeling a bit discouraged.

Postby Evravon » 05 Jul 2013 05:49

On a related note, do you guys know if stress is a factor in whether or not you are unable to have lucid dreams, or remember your dreams at all? Today, especially, was extremely hard on me. Maybe when my life calms down a bit I'll have more success? What do you think?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.

Evravon
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Re: Newbie here. Feeling a bit discouraged.

Postby Evravon » 05 Jul 2013 05:53

Sim B wrote:
Evravon wrote:I tell myself every night before bed "I will have a lucid dream tonight and I will remember it in the morning."
I can't remember any of my dreams. When I wake up I lay there completely motionless for a good 10 minutes, just trying to recall something.

And these "mechanical" habits with my phone have only been going on for 2 days now. Two weeks prior to that I was doing reality checks on my own. I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. I was unable to lucid dream, so I read more about it and downloaded these apps. You're saying these apps are going to make it HARDER to lucid dream?

Also, what's the "Wake Back to Sleep" method?

EDIT: Your "homework" analogy was extremely confusing. I don't understand the analogy at all. Especially the part about showing your teacher copied homework. If I'm reading about lucid dreaming every day and practicing the techniques, that's cheating?


Ok my analogy was a bit over the top, but here goes:

All I'm trying to say is that you have to really believe in it. I know it's hard to grasp, but it simply works that way. I, for one, was making several reality checks a day a year ago, but now I know that I wasn't really doing them. I was doing them because it was my "homework" to do them, but while I did them, I wasn't really thinking about doing them, so it didn't help at all. Hence the cheating reference. Thus, I couldn't LD.

Same thing for remembering your dreams. Try focusing on how it would feel to wake up in the morning, and remembering your dreams, writing them down. Repeating a sentence in your mind can help, but it is, after all, just a sentence. You can't tell the brain what to remember, it will, simply, remember what it wants to remember. :)

Lastly, I'm not saying the apps will make it harder, nor did I imply it. Refer to my first point in this very post to understand further. These apps might remind you to reality check while you're in the middle of something important in your daily life, which might or might not be the right time.

In a link in this thread I saw a guy making the gym training analogy, as when you go to the gym, you start seeing results of your training pretty soon. It doesn't work that way with lucid dreaming, you don't get rewarded proportionally to your efforts. The brain works in mysterious ways. :)


I really appreciate your time. Please don't misunderstand the intention of that post. I am grateful you even took time to respond, as you could have just as easily passed me by and left me for someone else to help.

I actually do agree with you about the whole "doing them just because you're supposed to be" thing. Just yesterday I realized that when I was doing reality checks, all I was really doing was looking at my hands and counting my fingers, and asking myself if I was awake, or how I got here. I just started to realize that I'm supposed to be thinking about WHY I'm doing these checks, and actually thinking "hey, you know what? Maybe I actually am dreaming right now and don't even realize it!". So I make certain that I try very hard to focus on my reality checks.

And you know what? Last night I had a dream, only a couple minutes long, but I do remember a little bit of it. Even now I do. And I'm trying to focus on that memory as often as I can to see if I can recall anything else. I think these techniques might be working!
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.

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Goldkoron
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Re: Newbie here. Feeling a bit discouraged.

Postby Goldkoron » 05 Jul 2013 06:12

Evravon wrote:I'm sorry, that last post confused me a bit. You are saying you have had lucid dreams in which you were not able to control what was happening? As in, you were aware this wasn't real and you were dreaming, but unable to change things? That is kind of disappointing. The whole reason I want to get better at lucid dreaming is because I wanted to be able to experience the sensation of flying, or helping those in need, protecting those I love or those that can't protect themselves. I feel like if you knew you were dreaming and couldn't do anything but follow your unconscious mind's story and play along, it could be a bit scary.

I also feel like my brain is wired differently than that. I know this isn't the same thing at all, but I will give you an example: I have talked to some people who tell me when they daydream they don't do things like have superpowers, magic, or other things of that nature. The concept is alien to them. They tell me they daydream about things that could actually happen, like winning the lottery, their next golf game, or succeeding in an awesome presentation at work. However, I can daydream about that type of stuff, but daydreaming about things that break the laws of physics is a snap for me, too. I feel like I can close my eyes right now and feel the sensation of flying, even though I have obviously never flown before. Weightlessness, super-speed/strength, invulnerability, etc.

EDIT: My point is, does that mean I will have an easier time controlling my dream when I become lucid? I imagine that the hardest part of this for me is going to be:
1) Remembering my dreams, and
2) Keeping myself asleep/lucid.


I am sorry for the confusion, what I meant was, I had a few lucid dreams in the past back when I did not know what lucid dreaming was, and therefore I did not know I could control anything. Now that I know what lucid dreaming is, I have managed a few dreams that I could control, but the longest one that I could control and was able to fly and around and stuff lasted over minute before I woke up. I am still a beginner myself and am working on attaining more lucid dreams and keeping myself asleep while in them.

I believe that it is possible for you to have a lucid dream, but forget those also. So you could actually have a controllable dream but forget that you had it in the first place, which is why working on dream recall is important. I do not remember every bit of my lucid dreams that I controlled, so I made sure to note down every detail I could remember in a computer document when I woke up.
Do a reality check

Evravon
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Re: Newbie here. Feeling a bit discouraged.

Postby Evravon » 05 Jul 2013 06:38

Goldkoron wrote:
Evravon wrote:I'm sorry, that last post confused me a bit. You are saying you have had lucid dreams in which you were not able to control what was happening? As in, you were aware this wasn't real and you were dreaming, but unable to change things? That is kind of disappointing. The whole reason I want to get better at lucid dreaming is because I wanted to be able to experience the sensation of flying, or helping those in need, protecting those I love or those that can't protect themselves. I feel like if you knew you were dreaming and couldn't do anything but follow your unconscious mind's story and play along, it could be a bit scary.

I also feel like my brain is wired differently than that. I know this isn't the same thing at all, but I will give you an example: I have talked to some people who tell me when they daydream they don't do things like have superpowers, magic, or other things of that nature. The concept is alien to them. They tell me they daydream about things that could actually happen, like winning the lottery, their next golf game, or succeeding in an awesome presentation at work. However, I can daydream about that type of stuff, but daydreaming about things that break the laws of physics is a snap for me, too. I feel like I can close my eyes right now and feel the sensation of flying, even though I have obviously never flown before. Weightlessness, super-speed/strength, invulnerability, etc.

EDIT: My point is, does that mean I will have an easier time controlling my dream when I become lucid? I imagine that the hardest part of this for me is going to be:
1) Remembering my dreams, and
2) Keeping myself asleep/lucid.


I am sorry for the confusion, what I meant was, I had a few lucid dreams in the past back when I did not know what lucid dreaming was, and therefore I did not know I could control anything. Now that I know what lucid dreaming is, I have managed a few dreams that I could control, but the longest one that I could control and was able to fly and around and stuff lasted over minute before I woke up. I am still a beginner myself and am working on attaining more lucid dreams and keeping myself asleep while in them.

I believe that it is possible for you to have a lucid dream, but forget those also. So you could actually have a controllable dream but forget that you had it in the first place, which is why working on dream recall is important. I do not remember every bit of my lucid dreams that I controlled, so I made sure to note down every detail I could remember in a computer document when I woke up.


That makes me so sad. To think, I could be lucid dreaming already and just not remember it. I truly hope that isn't happening.
How long, on average, do lucid dreams last? Is 1 minute the norm or can they range up to 2 hours?
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.

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Goldkoron
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Re: Newbie here. Feeling a bit discouraged.

Postby Goldkoron » 05 Jul 2013 06:44

I read that normal dream cycles last about one hour. So the longest a dream can get is probably an hour. Some dreams feel like they last a longer time but that is simply because dreams make time jumps and trick you into thinking you have memories in between those time jumps. Scientific studies have shown that when people are lucid in their dreams, they are perceiving reality at same speed as real life. So potentially if you are a very skilled lucid dreamer, you could perhaps be in one for an hour, or at least 30 minutes.

EDIT: I am not a expert though, so do not take any of this as solid fact.
Do a reality check

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btifuldreamer
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Re: Newbie here. Feeling a bit discouraged.

Postby btifuldreamer » 05 Jul 2013 12:49

I'm surprised at how much i am like you evravron :) Every question you asked i asked when i was a newbie. I also compare lucid dreams to a video game, a very, very fun video game. Sadly, since i joined i haven't had a lucid dream :/
Evravon wrote:I'm sorry, that last post confused me a bit. You are saying you have had lucid dreams in which you were not able to control what was happening? As in, you were aware this wasn't real and you were dreaming, but unable to change things? That is kind of disappointing. The whole reason I want to get better at lucid dreaming is because I wanted to be able to experience the sensation of flying, or helping those in need, protecting those I love or those that can't protect themselves. I feel like if you knew you were dreaming and couldn't do anything but follow your unconscious mind's story and play along, it could be a bit scary.


I made the same mistake that i think you have made. I used to think a lucid dream is a dream that you can control, but it's not. A lucid dream is one where you become aware that you are dreaming and are able to participate in your dreams, not necessarily control it. You can do whatever you want but i'm pretty sure you can't control everything. Well, you might be able to, i'm still confused at that bit. I'll assume you don't know much about lucid dreaming as you are new. I'm pretty sure (don't take my word on it) that there are two different ways to have a lucid dream that have many techniques involved. There is DILD (dream induced lucid dream) which is where you are in a dream and you realize you are dreaming, and there is WILD (wake induced lucid dream) where you go to sleep with your mind awake and enter a dream. Reality checks fall under DILD as they help you realize you are dreaming. I have tried many techniques and i think i am failing because i'm too desperate and when i go to sleep i feel very pressured and get angry if i fail, which isn't good.
I hope i haven't bored you :P I felt like i need to get all that info out and into words. We should talk more on the chat room guitarman99 made. Just look in my signature below.
From shane :D

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mia
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Re: Newbie here. Feeling a bit discouraged.

Postby mia » 05 Jul 2013 19:05

Probably, your first time lucid will be very short; with not much time to do anything much ( that's the usual scenario). You will develop more control, and longer lucid dreams as you gain experience. You find what works for you, and you will build your abilities. For example: flying; some people have a lot of trouble with it at first. The main idea is to be lucid enough that you REALLY know it's a dream, and therefore entirely of your own creation; this allows for freedom and control in the LD, then you can fly through closed windows, or get more light if the dream is dark, or change your dream scene ( though when you change it you don't always get what you want). They can last quite long; sometimes you will wake yourself up if they are longer because you can get worried you'll forget your LD events if it goes on too long ( or you don't want to lose lucidity and have it turn into a regular dream). The first thing to do is to stabilize the dream when you become lucid; I find if I REALLY look around the dream, then everything snaps into incredible detail and clarity ( that's my best way to stabilize). It's always good to have LD goals too- so you know what you want to do ahead of time and remember the goals when you become lucid. I find that when I have 'real life' problems or stress, then lucid dreams are less frequent. Read through this site for good examples of people's LD experiences.
The key to creativity is to remove the watchers from the gates, and realize how free you really are.

Evravon
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Re: Newbie here. Feeling a bit discouraged.

Postby Evravon » 08 Jul 2013 00:30

Okay, so, something a bit weird is happening. I can tell I'm getting closer to having a real LD experience, but like I said before, I have been having a lot of trouble remembering my dreams at all.

I was just sitting here, watching a movie, when suddenly something sparked a memory and I remembered my dream from last night (or maybe it was the night before?). Just out of nowhere, I remembered a dream that I completely had forgotten. It felt very weird. Very alien. Like it wasn't my own thought.

It's starting to frustrate me a lot more, now. I understand that lucid dreaming takes time and patience, but what's making me so upset is that I have such a hard time remembering ANY dreams. If I could just wake up and write down ONE DAMN DREAM per night, I would feel like I am making progress.
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.

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btifuldreamer
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Re: Newbie here. Feeling a bit discouraged.

Postby btifuldreamer » 08 Jul 2013 09:40

Evravon wrote:Okay, so, something a bit weird is happening. I can tell I'm getting closer to having a real LD experience, but like I said before, I have been having a lot of trouble remembering my dreams at all.

I was just sitting here, watching a movie, when suddenly something sparked a memory and I remembered my dream from last night (or maybe it was the night before?). Just out of nowhere, I remembered a dream that I completely had forgotten. It felt very weird. Very alien. Like it wasn't my own thought.

It's starting to frustrate me a lot more, now. I understand that lucid dreaming takes time and patience, but what's making me so upset is that I have such a hard time remembering ANY dreams. If I could just wake up and write down ONE DAMN DREAM per night, I would feel like I am making progress.

Hmm.... That does happen to me a lot. I remember one dream where i was fishing and then i saw a fin emerge out of the water and a massive shark jumped out, but i didn't remember the dream until i saw on the news that a man was attacked by a shark, so something sparked in my memory when people were talking about sharks and then i remembered. While i'm falling asleep i tell myself i am going to remember my dreams.Telling yourself mantra's while your going asleep is a part of the MILD technique and you do this to stick in your mind that you are going to remember your dreams and hopefully you will. It's like when you tell yourself to turn off the oven before you leave home, you remind yourself. When i first started doing MILD I really tried t make my mantra's stick in my head ("I will remember my dreams") and made it my key focus, but that was about 2 months ago and i am a lot more relaxed about lucid dreaming and i just tell myself i will remember my dreams but not being to fussed about it and it works :) Hopefully that makes sense. Anyways, when you wake up in the morning write down anything at all you remember from a dream even if it's only three words or a sentence, it's a start.


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