Religious Background

For all other chat which isn't directly related to lucid dreaming and the world of sleep and dreams.
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erichsa
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Re: Religious Background

Postby erichsa » 23 Aug 2013 17:36

by Howard: It is my determination to follow THE TRUTH, which is simply to Love and respect all as I wish to be loved and respected, and to live in freedom. Part of that freedom is the mastery of the dreaming/energy body, which eventually leads to complete, or absolute, freedom.

If you are not familiar with it read The Art of Dreaming by Carlos Castaneda

Yes Howard, that is how I feel, and I wish we were many more. The Art of Dreaming is in my opinion a great book for earnest seekers of the truth. To my Religious Background: I know I am a particle of the universe and very happy with that. :)

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Peter
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Re: Religious Background

Postby Peter » 23 Aug 2013 21:18

If you are not familiar with it read The Art of Dreaming by Carlos Castaneda


I have read all of them and all of the audio books and they are great but you need to remember the dreams in the book at some point are fuelled by cactus juice

Religious stuff - I used to say that I didn't believe and now I happily say I have no need to believe or not believe so really just don't care at all. I explore without any bias and happily live my life with aspects of self for company
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

Howard
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Re: Religious Background

Postby Howard » 23 Aug 2013 23:59

Peter wrote:
If you are not familiar with it read The Art of Dreaming by Carlos Castaneda


I have read all of them and all of the audio books and they are great but you need to remember the dreams in the book at some point are fuelled by cactus juice

Religious stuff - I used to say that I didn't believe and now I happily say I have no need to believe or not believe so really just don't care at all. I explore without any bias and happily live my life with aspects of self for company



"the dreams in the book at some point are fuelled by cactus juice"

That is erroneous,you need to return and re read the texts. Or not. Part of his preparation for breaking the 'mold of man' was aided by various hallucinogens but those stopped long before he achieved any proficiency in dreaming. Dreaming comes with a sober mind.

AceOfSpades
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Re: Religious Background

Postby AceOfSpades » 24 Aug 2013 02:44

I am impressed at what I am seeing so far, but aside from just knowing your beliefs. I would like to know how your beliefs apply to the following subjects.

Lucid Dreaming
Astral Projection
Paranormal Activity

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Peter
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Religious Background

Postby Peter » 24 Aug 2013 04:48

That is erroneous,you need to return and re read the texts. Or not. Part of his preparation for breaking the 'mold of man' was aided by various hallucinogens but those stopped long before he achieved any proficiency in dreaming.



No, not correct there was massive use of hallucinogens in all txt's and books. I an not running this down at all so no need to get hung up on any hidden meaning, try to find a book that does not make constant reference to this. A lot of the dreams are by use of substances and some mystic ceremonies to support the events. Some is not but say when one Carlos was playing with a dog in an out of it state its hard to see this as a mystical connection with some being when he and a dog were peeing on each other.
It was a great read and there were some gems in the series and I would read them again.


Dreaming comes with a sober mind


Not sure what you mean by this. You will find that a lot of deep dreamers will use something to assist either entry or prolonging a lucid state, yes its a sober mind in one sense but the abstract of awareness in a dream is counter to a bigger view of what sober might mean.

Keen to discuss and all this is merely my opinion
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

Teraku
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Joined: 10 May 2013 22:19

Re: Religious Background

Postby Teraku » 24 Aug 2013 13:45

AceOfSpades wrote:I am impressed at what I am seeing so far, but aside from just knowing your beliefs. I would like to know how your beliefs apply to the following subjects.

Lucid Dreaming
Astral Projection
Paranormal Activity


I see lucid dreaming as just another way the mind can function during sleep. It's basically dreaming, except you're in control. Nothing paranormal involved here.

As for astral projection and paranormal activity, I don't really believe in that. Sure, you could have an out-of-body experience in a (lucid) dream, but it would still be a dream.

Howard
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Joined: 22 Aug 2013 15:14

Re: Religious Background

Postby Howard » 24 Aug 2013 13:48

Peter wrote:
That is erroneous,you need to return and re read the texts. Or not. Part of his preparation for breaking the 'mold of man' was aided by various hallucinogens but those stopped long before he achieved any proficiency in dreaming.



No, not correct there was massive use of hallucinogens in all txt's and books. I an not running this down at all so no need to get hung up on any hidden meaning, try to find a book that does not make constant reference to this. A lot of the dreams are by use of substances and some mystic ceremonies to support the events. Some is not but say when one Carlos was playing with a dog in an out of it state its hard to see this as a mystical connection with some being when he and a dog were peeing on each other.
It was a great read and there were some gems in the series and I would read them again.


Dreaming comes with a sober mind


Not sure what you mean by this. You will find that a lot of deep dreamers will use something to assist either entry or prolonging a lucid state, yes its a sober mind in one sense but the abstract of awareness in a dream is counter to a bigger view of what sober might mean.

Keen to discuss and all this is merely my opinion



No thanks.

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HAGART
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Re: Religious Background

Postby HAGART » 24 Aug 2013 18:00

Teraku wrote:Sure, you could have an out-of-body experience in a (lucid) dream, but it would still be a dream.


That's my opinion too, given my beliefs.
I sometimes become lucid in bed and get up and feels like I am actually getting up in a 'dream-body' for lack of a better word. I have even looked back to see a sleeping body left behind.

I still think it is a vivid lucid dream that gives us a sense of body, which is not mystical since we have one when awake all day, so our brains and minds are use to it. (Doesn't mean they aren't damn exciting! I just rationalize it a certain way.)

However, if anybody wants to call it a Out of Body Experience, I don't mind. It really does FEEL that way, so why not dub it that. I tend to use the term, "OBE-type lucid dream" to fit with my beliefs, but no matter how we view it, we are experiencing the same thing and share them and that is what is most important. Not labels.

But my agnostic self still thinks some people may actually have had an OBE or remote viewed even though I never have. My room and bed always look different for me. But I can only believe in what I know for myself, until proven otherwise. I am actually very open minded, but stubborn.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Peter
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Religious Background

Postby Peter » 24 Aug 2013 18:39

No thanks


All good - enjoy the forum
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Summerlander
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Re: Religious Background

Postby Summerlander » 24 Aug 2013 20:12

I was born a Catholic but have long renowned such faith. Nearly three centuries ago, the father of American Revolution and the first person to use the words "United States of America," the great Thomas Paine, said the following in one of his books, Age of Reason:

"From the time I was capable of conceiving an idea and acting upon it by reflection, I either doubted the truth of the Christian system or thought it to be a strange affair; I scarcely knew which it was, but I well remember, when about seven or eight years of age, hearing a sermon read by a relation of mine, who was a great devotee of the Church, upon the subject of what is called redemption by the death of the Son of God. After the sermon was ended, I went into the garden, and as I was going down the garden steps (for I perfectly recollect the spot) I revolted at the recollection of what I had heard, and thought to myself that it was making God Almighty act like a passionate man, that killed his son when he could not revenge himself in any other way, and as I was sure a man would be hanged that did such a thing, I could not see for what purpose they preached such sermons. This was not one of that kind of thoughts that had anything in it of childish levity; it was to me a serious reflection, arising from the idea I had that God was too good to do such an action, and also too almighty to be under any necessity of doing it. I believe in the same manner at this moment; and I moreover believe, that any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."

I share this man's sentiment, who was clearly ahead of his time, and go one step further by removing God from the equation as it is not required. You may call me an atheist, but so is the Christian, the Muslim, and the Jew about such gods as Zeus, Apollo, Thor, and Neptune. I just go one god further.

I don't believe in God, let alone any man-made religion, any more than I believe in unicorns and fairies. There is no reason for me to believe. To me, the agnostic position is a weak one because they have not bothered to look at the known and available evidence out there which heavily weighs against the God possibility. It is not a 50/50 scenario. God, like the unicorn, is about 99.9% improbable. I leave a smidgen of a percentage for probability, not for the theistic version of God, but for the God of deism (a creator that does not intervene ever). I don't have to mention the studies conducted on prayer that showed them to be ineffective - one of the first by Darwin's cousin, Francis Galton.

But even deism has its problems. If the universe was created by a creator, this one would have to be created also! So the problem aggravates itself as we are then forced to ask: who created the creator and who created that creator ad infinitum. It's the infinite regress problem. Nobody knows exactly how the universe came about but the afterglow from the Big Bang is still seen in our skies and this colossal explosion was definitely the beginning of at least our universe.

For me, the question is not "who" but "how". The scientific theory that the universe is the result of quantum mechanical fermentation, as it were, is more plausible than a supernatural almighty being conceiving it by magic. If the latter was the case, such creator would have to be extremely lazy (as it took Him billions of years to even concoct the lightest of atoms); unintelligent (one look at our incremental evolution and the defects carried by our gene pool will suffice); capricious or evil/callous (punishment or reward befalls anyone indiscriminately considering wars, extreme weather, wealth etc.)

Anyway, the whole thing is just nonsensical and seems very absurd to me. I've always had a propensity to think for myself (probably my terrible childhood helped with my parents getting divorced and all) and developed an interest in science as I recognised that it was tackling big questions about the alien world around me rather than pretending to know and being intolerant of questioning like religion.

My two cents. 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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