Psychedelics and Lucidity

For general lucid chat - ask questions, share advice, set lucid dream challenges and explore the lucid realm together.
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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Psychedelics and Lucidity

Postby lucidinthe sky » 24 Sep 2013 17:23

HAGART wrote:Or we can try and let this thread die on it's own... but it doesn't, does it!
IT WANTS TO STAY ALIVE!

(At least we're not talking about questionable subject matter anymore)


tea wrote: a thread's struggle to survive is not a questionable subject!? :o


HAGART wrote:Nobody will know what I wrote.
But you quoted it, so it's still ALIVE!


Peter wrote:I deleted the original post, a little to close to advising the use of drugs and a lot of young member on this forum.

Moderator


Will someone PLEASE tell me what was deleted?!! :)

I think this is an important topic for discussion because I think lucid dreaming is the altered reality that many people are seeking when they use drugs. I've had a bit of experience with drugs, but I imagine if lucid dreaming had been offered to me instead: "O.K. I've got something new here. Take this and you will enter into an alternate universe where all your senses function normally. Your vision and hearing will be clear, not distorted. This experience will last up about 20 minutes. You can experience this alternate reality the same way you experience normal waking reality and if it freaks you out, you can end it instantly. Oh and by the way, it's 100% natural, no side effects, no hangover, no flashbacks, no risk of overdose." If I could have had the lucid dream experiences I have now, I probably would have stopped using drugs because that was really the experience I was searching for but just didn't know it.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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HAGART
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Re: Psychedelics and Lucidity

Postby HAGART » 24 Sep 2013 23:20

The original post was promoting psychedelic drug use and glorifying it. That was the only contention.

A lucid dream is definitely a psychotropic experience. Even during Hypnogogia and Hypnopompia we can experience visual and audio hallucinations. And psychedelic, or psychotropic drugs, can certainly put you into a dream-state-of-mind too. (Just listen to some of those Beatles songs!) I see where Lucid in the Sky chose his name.... Lucy in the Sky is a very dream like song too, and expresses the feeling of these kind of drugs, or even the feeling of a lucid dream. A lucid dream is like a 'trip' as well. We all go on a hallucinatory trip every night. Even if non-lucid we are on a 'trip'.

But drugs can also lead to paranoia and can last for a few days, with frequent 'flashbacks'. And you can't just simply turn it off. Lucid dreaming is a far better alternative.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

LucidLink
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Re: Psychedelics and Lucidity

Postby LucidLink » 24 Sep 2013 23:45

HAGART wrote:The original post was promoting psychedelic drug use and glorifying it. That was the only contention.

A lucid dream is definitely a psychotropic experience. Even during Hypnogogia and Hypnopompia we can experience visual and audio hallucinations. And psychedelic, or psychotropic drugs, can certainly put you into a dream-state-of-mind too. (Just listen to some of those Beatles songs!) I see where Lucid in the Sky chose his name.... Lucy in the Sky is a very dream like song too, and expresses the feeling of these kind of drugs, or even the feeling of a lucid dream. A lucid dream is like a 'trip' as well. We all go on a hallucinatory trip every night. Even if non-lucid we are on a 'trip'.

But drugs can also lead to paranoia and can last for a few days, with frequent 'flashbacks'. And you can't just simply turn it off. Lucid dreaming is a far better alternative.


Well you'll never know what was written, because it was deleted. Don't take this word for it either, because it's out of context.

What I wanted was a discussion on the true value of psychedelics, but I was all too aware many start off with how bad they are. So I added a little disclaimer right off the bat about this topic is only for the discussion of the grand value of psychedelics in dreaming, and life, and not for the bashing of psychedelics.

Now I see why it was deleted, I'm not complaining.

But please, don't try and summarize my deleted post and then give it a completely different intent.

And also, I'm not talking about drugs. I'm talking about psychedelics.

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HAGART
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Re: Psychedelics and Lucidity

Postby HAGART » 25 Sep 2013 00:02

Fair enough.
I can only rely on my memory of it, and how I interpreted it. (Maybe you just worded it wrong and it came across the wrong way).
I actually had no problem with it at all, but it was a bit risque. Not for the kids, (they're smart), but for any concerned parents who may object and then view this website as a bad influence.

Parents can overreact sometimes and then blame Rebbecca for it. But Peter is on the case, and he will moderate this.

I have had experience with both and can certainly see comparisons, and don't mind talking about this.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

LucidLink
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Re: Psychedelics and Lucidity

Postby LucidLink » 25 Sep 2013 01:07

HAGART wrote:Fair enough.
I can only rely on my memory of it, and how I interpreted it. (Maybe you just worded it wrong and it came across the wrong way).
I actually had no problem with it at all, but it was a bit risque. Not for the kids, (they're smart), but for any concerned parents who may object and then view this website as a bad influence.

Parents can overreact sometimes and then blame Rebbecca for it. But Peter is on the case, and he will moderate this.

I have had experience with both and can certainly see comparisons, and don't mind talking about this.

Yes ill be the first to admit my wording choice was just about awful. I was on a bit of a pro psychedelic rampage I'm afraid, and I purposefully flew caution to the wind on my wording which I now regret.

And I see why it was deleted, due to my poor choice of words and the impression it did give that psychedelics are harmless.

(Which as amazing and safe they can be, they are not harmless. Nor are they for everyone)

Psychedelics are safe, but I am fully aware they should not be taken lightly what's so ever. And sometimes in the wrong situations, psychedelics are dangerous.

But despite all that, I see great great value that can not be over exaggerated in them. And that was more my intent with my original post.


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HAGART
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Re: Psychedelics and Lucidity

Postby HAGART » 25 Sep 2013 01:36

Even one of Rebbecca's articles is about a plant that Shamans use in Mexico. I'm sure she is fine with this.
And psychedelics can be used for higher purposes than recreational use.

This thread stayed alive on it's own because others gave it life. People do want to talk about it. I'm glad it stuck around and now we can talk without worries.

Let's pretend it just started. SO basically this is about Psychedelics and Lucidity: compare and contrast.
(And Lucidity doesn't necessarily mean lucid dreaming, but just the ability to think clearly. Do we ever think clearly ever, even when sober and awake? Spock would say no. We humans are highly illogical).

And lucid dreaming is the ability to think clearly, and lucid, during a very strange psychedelic trip we all know as 'dreams'. Which are perfectly natural. (Slightly off topic, but would Spock lucid dream? I think not. He can't let go and analyzes everything too much. But there was that one episode when he got a face full of spores from that alien flower and started to smile and hang from trees....... Spock got high like a hippie!) (It was a 60's show after all). :lol:

EDIT: I thought about it more and I bet Spock would ONLY lucid dream and never be non-lucid. But he would never have any care-free fun in them.
Last edited by HAGART on 25 Sep 2013 22:53, edited 1 time in total.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Psychedelics and Lucidity

Postby lucidinthe sky » 25 Sep 2013 04:40

HAGART wrote: A lucid dream is definitely a tropic experience. Even during Hypnogogia and Hypnopompia we can experience visual and audio hallucinations. And psychedelic, or psychotropic drugs, can certainly put you into a dream-state-of-mind too. (Just listen to some of those Beatles songs!) I see where Lucid in the Sky chose his name.... Lucy in the Sky is a very dream like song too, and expresses the feeling of these kind of drugs, or even the feeling of a lucid dream. A lucid dream is like a 'trip' as well. We all go on a hallucinatory trip every night. Even if non-lucid we are on a 'trip'.


It's funny but when I decided on the name I use, I had NO idea how "trip-like" Lucid Dreams are. Turns out that LDs are like LSD without the S.

This a generalization but I as see it, humans have a desire to alter their experience of reality and use drugs to achieve that state. As we all know, using psychedelics became really popular during the 1960s. People use these psychedelic drugs to experience an altered state of reality, "expand their minds" so to say. As one famous musician explained it “Everyone was interested in mind expanding as we thought we doing then." Then he laughs "But were just getting wrecked.” The problem is that drugs distort or destroy your ability to experience the altered reality. So you take reality as you know it and then you alter your ability to experience it so it becomes a distortion of reality. Your brain takes reality and distorts it. So you are in the same room, only the walls are melting and changing color for example but your senses are messed up so your experience is really a distortion. With a lucid dream "trip", reality is not altered, it's completely replaced leaving your senses and ability to experience it completely intact. The walls don't melt, you aren't even in the same room! The room has been replaced with a car or a trail by a river, a forest, a ship, you name it.
And, you can learn to create the reality in real time. The lucid dream experience is really the ultimate trip, you can't just pop a pill and make it happen, but it's far more "mind expanding" than any drug.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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HAGART
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Re: Psychedelics and Lucidity

Postby HAGART » 25 Sep 2013 16:43

lucidinthe sky wrote:humans have a desire to alter their experience of reality and use drugs to achieve that state


We humans sure do and legal or not, humans are going to do it anyway. Even alcohol alters our perception of reality to an extent and just look how wide spread and acceptable that is. (Not all cultures of course, but most have their own version of booze).

Other animals in the wild have been known to alter their minds with substances too. There's a millipede that sweats a 'poison' that has psychedelic effects and Capuchin Monkeys eat them to feel the effect. I think I saw a show once where a Lemur was eating the same type of millipede too for the same reason. And some Reindeer eat Amanita muscaria, a red magic mushroom. Northern Shamans use it too to get visions.

Lucid dreams can be like visions too in which I talk to spirits. But I call them Dream Characters. If I was living in a different culture my dream characters may appear as animals and I would regard them as spirits.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Peter
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Re: Psychedelics and Lucidity

Postby Peter » 25 Sep 2013 21:17

A lucid dream is definitely a psychotropic experience


So is life if let it be that way.

I was around drugs a lot when I was young but never bothered with them as my dream life at that point exceeded what I was hearing from the older people around me so I totally agree with the views here. Some of the barriers are that in our current society we want instant results and lucid dreaming to a deep level requires skill, time and effort so wont be for everyone. I think that dreaming might exceed the use of a lot of drugs as its a fully aware experience but dont know.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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taniaaust1
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Re: Psychedelics and Lucidity

Postby taniaaust1 » 26 Sep 2013 04:55

HAGART wrote:
Other animals in the wild have been known to alter their minds with substances too. There's a millipede that sweats a 'poison' that has psychedelic effects and Capuchin Monkeys eat them to feel the effect. I think I saw a show once where a Lemur was eating the same type of millipede too for the same reason.


:shock: my daughter when she was young, had a thing about eatting millipedes. It was discusting (I used to gag whenever I'd catch her doing that), I'd catch her crunching on them and they would stain her her purplish around her mouth. Your post is now making me wonder if she was actually getting something out of eatting them.
The only thing to fear is the fear itself


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