Remote Viewing Experiment

For those who wish to discuss the purely scientific aspects of sleep and dreams, including new research and future technologies.
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Summerlander
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby Summerlander » 06 Oct 2013 20:51

HAGART wrote:I read Summerlander's experiences and results.
So far for me, the cards are hard to read too, and are nothing like the actual one.


I'm glad I'm not the only one! :D

HAGART wrote:In one of your dreams, you were breaking glass to admire the realism of it. I do that too! And sometimes I throw plates at the wall just to hear and watch them smash. It's childish perhaps, but fun because it is very real and there are no consequences. I'm always amazed by the sound of it.


I completely understand where you are coming from. I have smashed plates against walls too! LOL! It's amazing. It may seem trivial but it's fun. These experiences are often realistic. I think only a few times there was no sound or it seemed a bit delayed, but, the majority of times, everything went as though it happened in the real world. Awesome! 8-)

HAGART wrote:You also use the word 'foul' to mean ending the dream. Or is there more to it? I never heard that term before.


A foul is an undesired exit from a lucid dream (aka phase state). I adopted this terminology from Michael Raduga's School of Out-of-Body Travel. When I record my experiences I tend to just say "the phase" or "phase state" as an umbrella term (instead of, "I had an OOBE, WILD, DILD etc.)

I try to follow what the EDMAR acronym, which I came up with, stands for:
1-Enter; 2-Deepen; 3-Manage/maintain; 4-Action (plan); 5-Re-enter the phase (in case of a foul)

One must aim to stay in the state for as long as possible and a foul does not mean it's the end. Try to re-enter the lucid dream world until you exhaust this option. The minute you start feeling the bed beneath you, "separate" immediately! Don't even think. Just get up! You can always check afterwards whether you are standing in the real world or the phase.

HAGART wrote:I like your drawing too. I was examining it and there is a lot of detail. The design around the door frame and the many swirls go unnoticed at first. Good Job! I can't help, but feel there is meaning in dreams and the card may reveal something. I examined the card itself and I think I cracked the code!
It's a secret recipe for spicy burritos! :o


:mrgreen:

Thanks for cracking that! It makes sense now. I think it was a warning to go easy on spicy food. I should have taken heed of that. Now I have haemorrhoids. :twisted:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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HAGART
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby HAGART » 06 Oct 2013 23:15

In that case, I have 'fouled' too and know what it's like to 're-enter'.
Why wake up, when you still have time to sleep and will inevitably fall back asleep again?
And the 're-enter' can often become false awakenings and it's best to stand up and then question your surroundings. There is nothing to lose and it happens all too often for me so I should get in the habit of that.

Even if I am non-lucid, I tend to wake up every hour during the (roughly 3 hour) REM phase, and it's something I am use to and do it naturally anyway. But when you think about it, why can't I stay in a lucid dream for 3 hours? There is really nothing stopping me, but it still happens. I get fouled all the time after about 5-15 minutes. But when I do, I try to remain calm and relaxed and think of where I just was and sometimes I can re-enter where I left off.

Deepen and Manage are two things I forget to do, and need to work on that.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby Summerlander » 07 Oct 2013 00:46

Yeah, I relate to the false awakenings, too. It is a period of doubt, even though departed from the ordinary dream state, but, it does provide enough mental sharpness to question your reality and the opportunity to turn it into a lucid dream.

Sometimes I forget to deepen too. But ideally, as soon as I enter the lucid dream world, I spend about ten seconds deepening before going about my plan of action. Then I maintain as needed, meaning that I use sensory-amplification techniques when I feel that the environment is fading.

In Raduga's school we learn that the phase state is not stable. It fluctuates. Because it is a hybrid state, you can lose it in two ways: you either wake up (foul); or the experience turns into an ordinary dream.

As lucid dreamers we aim to avoid both. Movement, touching, and peering at dream objects can prevent us from fouling (though the fear of fouling can lead to a false awakening in itself). Reminders that one is dreaming and avoiding too much interaction with dream plots can help us to stay focused and avoid the other problem, which is, slipping into ordinary dream mode (we call this "falling asleep in the phase").

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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HAGART
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby HAGART » 07 Oct 2013 01:31

I relate to everything you say.

You can lose your lucidity in a dream, not because of waking up, but because you get mesmerized, and side-tracked by something else. It is so easy, because we teeter on the edge of rational thought and dream-nonsense. By 'rational thought' I mean, consciously interpreting what you experience, see, taste, hear, feel etc., and by 'dream-nonsense', I mean the uncontrollable subconscious imagination that keeps creating new things, objects and environments and characters. It's a 'seesaw' balance of interpreting your imagination. A Tug 'O War between the conscious and subconscious. Too far on one side, you wake up; Too far on the other, you get lost in a dream again. In the middle... that's the 'phase' as you call it.

Even a simple card, in the extreme case, can become EVERY NUMBER and EVERY SUIT imaginable all at once and it's impossible to interpret with that 'Tug 'O War' going on. (It's hard to describe what that feels like, but I've felt this in my first attempt, and when I try to read signs and other texts in lucid dreams too, so I know others know the feeling). Also, the longer you look at something in a lucid dream, the more you'll see. It just changes sometimes and especially when you look away and then back again at it. I even tried blinking in a lucid dream and the object (a clock) changed as fast as I blinked. Not only the time, but it became every clock I've ever known. A digital-clock-radio, a grandfather clock, even that one of the black and white cat with the eyes that tick-tock side to side from pop-culture... if you know the one.

Some may think this is going off topic, on a tangent, but it's my thread and I say, let the conversation go where it may. We can be surprised by what we learn, ignoring what the origin was, and just talk freely.

We can get back to cards later, and I will, if I ever get an interesting lucid dream about it. And I look forward to hearing from anyone else who attempts this, fail or foul.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby Summerlander » 07 Oct 2013 16:47

I don't think you are going off-topic at all. I think what you said is very relevant and on the money when it comes to cards and the behaviour of dream objects in general. I like the "seesaw" analogy, too.

And you are right, the optimal phase state is in the "middle." Ideally, you will feel awake inside a vivid dream world (hyper-realistic even) and you will know that you are dreaming. That is what we call a "deep phase."

However, if the environment is faint or vague, it needs deepening. And if your judgement isn't all there despite the knowledge that one is dreaming, you need more focus. This is what we call a "shallow phase" which can happen to any of us. We can go from deep to shallow and vice versa! LOL!

It's no different to Rebecca's degrees of lucidity and vividness or intensity. Just different terminology I guess.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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HAGART
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby HAGART » 09 Oct 2013 18:20

Attempt #2

I became lucid in a dream and it 'fouled' against my will. I remained calm and still. Although I was laying on my back in darkness I could feel internally in my head that I was still in a different brain wave than awake. It's hard to describe, but I could tell. I heard some voices whispering from another room, talking to each other as though some others in my house had gotten up already. I also knew there was a big chance it was just an hallucination. I remained still, waiting to see if I would get the symptoms of a 'body exit', but there was nothing. Then I started to feel a weight on my shins and I thought it might turn into a sleep paralysis episode, so I quickly opened my eyes and got up. I had nothing to lose except accidental awakening.

The fact that I had trouble getting up, and my sense of balance was off, was another give away that I was still dreaming. I checked the time on the clock and it was 12:45 am. Way too early for others to get up, so again I knew. I had moved the placement of the card before bed last night, so I wouldn't see it accidentally whenever I got up in the morning or night to use the bathroom. It was in the corner of my room now, and I remembered that, so I was quite aware with my memories in tact. I checked the card.

It wasn't a card at all, but a thin strip of paper with a big, red number 3:

    3
I looked at the paper more and it was larger now with more drawings on it. I saw two drawings of cards, both small, about the size of my thumb. They were 10's, but the suit was hard to tell. It was a lot like the drawing of "Seven of Clubs". There were many clubs and spades all over the two drawings and different sizes. (They were all black however).

When I woke up, I went with my first vision and thought it must be a red 3. But if it's a black 10 that would be noteworthy too.
I was wrong. It was the 7 of hearts.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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HAGART
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby HAGART » 09 Oct 2013 23:37

My experience also goes to show that there is no difference between an 'Out of Body Experience' and a False Awakening. (Or in my case a Lucid-False-Awakening which is an oxymoron, but I don't know what else to call it.)

I think others that swear to experience true OBE's are perhaps just experiencing a higher detailed version of their last known surroundings. And it feels more mystical because of the muscle atonia, sleep paralysis, which I believe causes the 'vibrations', sinking, floating and buzzing sounds. I don't get those ALL the time and something is always amiss when I get up and look around. If someone had a photographic memory their experiences may be different than mine and will see every known detail, true to life.

But the dream that ensued was exactly the same as what feels like the start of what others describe as OBE.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Peter
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby Peter » 10 Oct 2013 22:19

The OBE - LD goes round and round and I see no difference and can induce either state as an entry to a dream.
In an OBE (had one last night) I was at the ceiling touching and playing as I was looking for feedback due to a post on here and the scene lightened up - not a true likeness as it was early hours and dark. I understand the almost desperate need to want an OBE to be OB but the devil is in the details.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby lucidinthe sky » 10 Oct 2013 23:23

Peter wrote:The OBE - LD goes round and round and I see no difference and can induce either state as an entry to a dream.
In an OBE (had one last night) I was at the ceiling touching and playing as I was looking for feedback due to a post on here and the scene lightened up - not a true likeness as it was early hours and dark. I understand the almost desperate need to want an OBE to be OB but the devil is in the details.


Yes, I agree. I'm finding the experience of OB is pretty much inseparable from LD, at least in the best LDs which are pretty much everyone lately. Been having a hard time being able to deal with concept of "dual reality", IE. dream and waking life as they are indistinguishable. The dreams are getting more real in terms of sensory inputs, taste has gotten much more intense and real in recent dreams.

Initially, I thought it was just a problem of adding another reality to my map. But I'm realizing that it's really the OB experience which is is difficult for me, feeling like there are 2 of me, split apart in two separate realities. Of course I can always tell myself "none of this really exists" and of course it will all go away, but that defeats the purpose. Any thoughts like that ruins the quality of the dream.

The experience is becoming more pronounced, more distinct, this experience of being separated. Difficult for me to deal with. I often decide to come back from the dream after only a few minutes of it because I feel so disoriented. It seems to be more of a problem in DILDs than in WILDs. With WILD I feel like there's more time to get acclimated so to say. In DILD, it's like I wake up completely, only we're obviously not in Kansas any more. I'm sure I'll get more used to it with time.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Peter
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby Peter » 11 Oct 2013 00:53

the OB experience which is is difficult for me, feeling like there are 2 of me, split apart in two separate realities


I tend to think that on one level there is only one of us/me and its the means of exploring the world that is different so in a dream I use my energy body but also only when I want to as there have been plenty of explorations that require no body but there is an awareness that has the essence of me having the experience. In other ways with the direct contact with the dreamspace and some of the event that occur at times I also feel that the me i think of in daily life is not the only part with control and may not even be the most important part or more correctly the part in full control.

As for dream length its only fear so kick that away and get on with it, last night I had dream time of around 50 minutes plus and pulled myself back because of nothing else I wanted to do. I was happy to come back to wakefulness and enjoy the feelings of the dream and they are still with me hours later.

The dreamscape is as real in memory, retained experience to support memory and at the time as full and complete as daily life + more at times
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born


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