Remote Viewing Experiment

For those who wish to discuss the purely scientific aspects of sleep and dreams, including new research and future technologies.
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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby lucidinthe sky » 11 Oct 2013 04:13

Peter wrote:
the OB experience which is is difficult for me, feeling like there are 2 of me, split apart in two separate realities


I tend to think that on one level there is only one of us/me and its the means of exploring the world that is different so in a dream I use my energy body but also only when I want to as there have been plenty of explorations that require no body but there is an awareness that has the essence of me having the experience.


I have all the experiences that a body has, but never see one. I can look at my hands, but they are not there otherwise. I can stamp my feet on the ground and experience all of the sensations, yet I never see any feet. I know the mind/body separation is just a perception, yet it has the weight of real experience behind it. In dreams, experience is reality.

Peter wrote: As for dream length its only fear so kick that away and get on with it, last night I had dream time of around 50 minutes plus and pulled myself back because of nothing else I wanted to do. I was happy to come back to wakefulness and enjoy the feelings of the dream and they are still with me hours later.


I'm working on dealing with that fear, getting used to the reality frame of lucid dreams, but it really is trippy. I really never expected that level of realness and the OBE experience is otherworldly. I also get the feeling that not everyone has the same level of intensity in their dreams.

Peter wrote: The dreamscape is as real in memory, retained experience to support memory and at the time as full and complete as daily life + more at times


Yes, that's true in what I would call the "full experience". It's really quite a thing to say, that a dream could have that same level of experience as waking life, isn't it? But of course we know it's true. It really leaves me shaking my head sometimes for the whole next day.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Peter
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby Peter » 11 Oct 2013 04:59

I know the mind/body separation is just a perception


I dont think it is just a perception but think that we have a meat body or physical body and we have a dream body that we can conjure up as a look alike or not depending on experience or need or belief (you can be human in most ways in appearance, you can be an animal or you can be body less) and in all instances have awareness so I think the awareness is the defining point and that is what moves around and uses either the physical of energetic body for the mode of transport and so each is real and neither is a perception but a mode of transport and a way to collect experience.

It is this awareness that is "me" but it is most likely only one part of many awareness's that exist as me and it is those others that I am seeking, without purpose at this stage just looking and pushing boundaries to see what I can find

I have all the experiences that a body has, but never see one


I see bits, hands that look real at times and look odd at others. In placing my hands on a ceiling this morning I had a normal hand shape but it was shimmering and when putting my hand in and out of the hard ceiling I had very real feelings that were painful but familiar to me so just played around for a while putting it in and out of the hard panels
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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HAGART
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby HAGART » 11 Oct 2013 05:45

We all know the classic five senses, but there are others.
We also have a sense of proprioception, and a sense of balance (what is up and what is down?). Or even if you take a deep breath you can feel it in your chest without looking, or hearing it. (And it's not the same as tactile touch). So there are more than just 5 and some senses are internal and bodily. (Sense of hunger too!)

We have a sense of body when awake, but we are so accustomed to it, we don't even give it a second thought. We are so use to this human body we don't even realize it half the time.

In a dream state, our senses go a little haywire compared to our waking state. We all know that when we think of the classic 5 senses, but what about those other bodily senses? They go haywire too. Those senses of the body are an illusion in our minds too, but make life and dreams seem more 'real'.

In dreams, we don't need a body, and can even toy with it, and manipulate it too, I am sure. (I've never done that and it seems advanced, but yet, 'advanced' is just a mental block on my part. I should consider everything easy and I will have more success).

One last thing:
When I walk down a street in a lucid dream, I hardly ever see my body below me peripherally as I walk. I don't see my torso or arms swinging the way I do in waking life. Then again, in waking life, although I see it peripherally, I tend to ignore it. Perhaps that is why I don't see it in dreams. Whatever I notice when awake all day will come easily when I am in a dream. So that also means that mentally sensing your body in bed before you sleep should induce more of a sense of body in the dream. That may seem obvious, and I think some other techniques like SSILD mention that. (It's one of the senses along with hearing what's around you and seeing whatever may be there despite eyes closed). Sometimes it takes a while to click for me, but I think it just did. I'll test that too and other techniques to 'solidify the realism' of the dream too, in the mean time, as I continue checking cards.

Having a strong sense of body in a lucid dream, although it may just be an illusion of the mind, makes them so much more fun and realistic of an adventure. Otherwise, you are in the other extreme and in 'the void' as Peter calls it, but that is also fun once you get over the fact that you don't need a sense of body in reference to anything else. I'm mostly in the middle of the extremes, and I'm just a floating POV (point of view) that can move freely. All 3 are important to understand though. I like having a 'dream body' and should work on that more, and even become acquainted more with 'the void' too and get to know that too.
Last edited by HAGART on 11 Oct 2013 06:16, edited 1 time in total.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Peter
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby Peter » 11 Oct 2013 06:14

In dreams, we don't need a body, and can even toy with it, and manipulate it too


The simplest way to have fun is to get lucid and when standing somewhere just project out an arm or hand to some object a long way off and it stretches and also has all the feelings to be able to make it real. Do this when you are OBE to put that experience in perspective.

I think some other techniques like SSILD mention that


This is a very good technique if you dont try to use it for a WILD. It will work nicely for WILD and most times will project you out but if you use it as a relaxation technique you will get a good sense of body and a deep relaxing entry to sleep. I think it causes lucid awareness or DILD by the fact that if you are performing a task in a dream then the logical mind links the body action to the pre-sleep exercises. It is very effective and a no stress one as you are not trying for WILD and the worst that will happen is a great nights sleep.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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HAGART
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby HAGART » 11 Oct 2013 06:29

Peter wrote:The simplest way to have fun is to get lucid and when standing somewhere just project out an arm or hand to some object a long way off and it stretches and also has all the feelings to be able to make it real. Do this when you are OBE to put that experience in perspective.


I've actually tried that a few times with no success. Even if I don't see my arms stretch I still think I should be able to feel something far away, because distance in a lucid dream is an optical illusion. If I wanted to, I could 'zoom in' and 'teleport' there and then touch it, but stretching my arms and feeling tactile sensations from a distance are hard for me. It's hard to wrap my head around it which is probably why.

One time, I was trying a touch a tree in the distance and gave up and 'karate-chopped' the air in front of me, and it fell over even though it was about 50 feet away. So I know it's possible to manipulate far off objects, so feeling them must be possible too. I gotta start believing I can.

There was another relaxation technique, focusing purely on the body, I read about in one of Rebbecca's articles. It was about focusing on different points on your body and making each part relax. Even if it doesn't induce a lucid dream from a WILD or DILD, I'm sure it has other benefits and can at the very least lead to a good nights sleep. There is never any harm in attempting these.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Peter
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby Peter » 11 Oct 2013 08:44

Its so much in the mind in a lot of ways but all doable if you want to, some of it is ok for a the wonder of it but then there is no need apart from common ground and shared experience but that is a great thing in the realm we are talking about.

The feelings I like the most are the ones that have no relationship to daily life and the first one is putting my hands into and then going through what would be solid matter in waking life. I was fascinated last night just doing this repeatedly and trying to understand why there was any feeling at all then why the sensation was bordering on pain and then redefining pain as the concept in not really valid in the dreamworld.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby lucidinthe sky » 11 Oct 2013 14:50

Peter wrote:The feelings I like the most are the ones that have no relationship to daily life and the first one is putting my hands into and then going through what would be solid matter in waking life. I was fascinated last night just doing this repeatedly and trying to understand why there was any feeling at all then why the sensation was bordering on pain and then redefining pain as the concept in not really valid in the dreamworld.


The feeling I had pushing through the ceiling was slightly painful too, almost felt like it was abrasive fibers of some kind pushing against each other, passing through each other and I also felt a sort of friction of things moving past/through each other.

Oh, and I was inspired by your long lucid dream and comments to kick the fear out of the way. I made a decision last night that I was going to have a long lucid dream and sure enough it happened. I think it was around 20 minutes and one of the longest yet for me. Really fantastic, almost everyone in the dream knew about lucid dreaming and was into it. I'll post about it in the "share your lucid dreams" section.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby lucidinthe sky » 11 Oct 2013 17:33

HAGART wrote:We all know the classic five senses, but there are others.
We also have a sense of proprioception, and a sense of balance (what is up and what is down?). Or even if you take a deep breath you can feel it in your chest without looking, or hearing it. (And it's not the same as tactile touch). So there are more than just 5 and some senses are internal and bodily. (Sense of hunger too!)

We have a sense of body when awake, but we are so accustomed to it, we don't even give it a second thought. We are so use to this human body we don't even realize it half the time.

In a dream state, our senses go a little haywire compared to our waking state. We all know that when we think of the classic 5 senses, but what about those other bodily senses? They go haywire too. Those senses of the body are an illusion in our minds too, but make life and dreams seem more 'real'.

In dreams, we don't need a body, and can even toy with it, and manipulate it too, I am sure. (I've never done that and it seems advanced, but yet, 'advanced' is just a mental block on my part. I should consider everything easy and I will have more success).


Yes, everything is easy, if an intent is created.

I'm thinking that we have a body and all the senses, but we really bypass the mechanics of all of it and go straight to the experience level. That's how it seems to work for me. For example in waking life I decide to pick up an object to feel it. Instruction: Pick up object A and feel it. I make the decision which causes my muscles to move and pick up the object, then I feel it and a "tactile image" (for lack of a better term) appears in my brain. In a dream, I make a decision to pick up an object and feel it, but it's more like Instruction: Take in touch data for object A. Then just the pure sensory data appears and the experience occurs, but none of the mechanics.

As you were saying about how most of time our bodies are there but we don't give it a second thought. So in waking life, we are aware of them and occasionally look at them or feel something in our bodies, but usually it's just awareness. But that's the only part we seem to have in dreams is the awareness of a body, of course we can "make" one if we want, but most of time we are just after the experience and skip the mechanics. It's really much more efficient.

After having many completely real and vivid LDs, the more I think about it, the more I think the term "dream" is really such an understatement. They are really more like "purely manifested realities" because you can actually have all of experiences of waking life inside of these places which are experienced as physical reality, but are purely a creation. It's so much more than just a "dream".
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby LucidLink » 12 Oct 2013 00:32

HAGART wrote:We all know the classic five senses, but there are others.
We also have a sense of proprioception, and a sense of balance (what is up and what is down?). Or even if you take a deep breath you can feel it in your chest without looking, or hearing it. (And it's not the same as tactile touch). So there are more than just 5 and some senses are internal and bodily. (Sense of hunger too!)

We have a sense of body when awake, but we are so accustomed to it, we don't even give it a second thought. We are so use to this human body we don't even realize it half the time.

In a dream state, our senses go a little haywire compared to our waking state. We all know that when we think of the classic 5 senses, but what about those other bodily senses? They go haywire too. Those senses of the body are an illusion in our minds too, but make life and dreams seem more 'real'.

In dreams, we don't need a body, and can even toy with it, and manipulate it too, I am sure. (I've never done that and it seems advanced, but yet, 'advanced' is just a mental block on my part. I should consider everything easy and I will have more success).

One last thing:
When I walk down a street in a lucid dream, I hardly ever see my body below me peripherally as I walk. I don't see my torso or arms swinging the way I do in waking life. Then again, in waking life, although I see it peripherally, I tend to ignore it. Perhaps that is why I don't see it in dreams. Whatever I notice when awake all day will come easily when I am in a dream. So that also means that mentally sensing your body in bed before you sleep should induce more of a sense of body in the dream. That may seem obvious, and I think some other techniques like SSILD mention that. (It's one of the senses along with hearing what's around you and seeing whatever may be there despite eyes closed). Sometimes it takes a while to click for me, but I think it just did. I'll test that too and other techniques to 'solidify the realism' of the dream too, in the mean time, as I continue checking cards.

Having a strong sense of body in a lucid dream, although it may just be an illusion of the mind, makes them so much more fun and realistic of an adventure. Otherwise, you are in the other extreme and in 'the void' as Peter calls it, but that is also fun once you get over the fact that you don't need a sense of body in reference to anything else. I'm mostly in the middle of the extremes, and I'm just a floating POV (point of view) that can move freely. All 3 are important to understand though. I like having a 'dream body' and should work on that more, and even become acquainted more with 'the void' too and get to know that too.


Has anyone seen the crazy science show with Morgan Freeman? Seems like it'd be a popular show with our crowd. But more importantly! One of the episodes of this show(I believe it's called through the wormhole?) the topic is all about our senses, and more importantly the possible existence of a 6th sense! Yes we have the common 5 senses, but what about the sixth sense? I believe we all have a 6th sense, we just aren't to accustomed to using it. You stop using one sense, and the others heighten right?

I'm mostly rambleing off topic though, your post just really struck me because I believe the sixth sense is a very real sense just as touch, or taste, and so on.

So it seems we have many senses!
And if you'd like to hear the intro where Morgan Freeman introduces the topic of a sixth sense, it's at the beginning of this song!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vwyxQHG9imk

Right after the Morgan freeman sample, the song starts with a line saying "Dreaming of things two eyes could never see"

In which he is referring to using the "third eye" chakra to heighten his sixth sense to the point where his dreams become lucid.

Now did you ever think youd hear good rap about lucid dreaming?;) I sure didnt!

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image

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HAGART
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Re: Remote Viewing Experiment

Postby HAGART » 12 Oct 2013 02:56

I know through the wormhole and really like that show.
But I got my ideas about the senses from a link someone (deschainXIX) provided in "is a virtual dream machine possible"
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/07/humans-have-a-lot-more-than-five-senses/

So the "6th" sense you describe might have to be renamed to the 11th or 15th after taking into account all the other known ones.

So come to think of it, Lucidinthe Sky, perhaps our brains are already a virtual dream machine. Some dreams are more like virtual reality than mere dreams. Most lucid dreams I have are what I call, unstable. Things can change a lot and people morph and new things sprout into existence. (Depends on how busy my subconscious mind is I guess). Those are very much like a dream experience, but being conscious during it.

But I've had a few that are like being alive in a different world without any plot. I can walk around and interact with it, and feel like I am fully there with a body. (Some even go a little to long for my comfort and I wonder if I still have a body to go back to. But that's only after 15-30 minutes because I am not use to it right now). I find it harder to do things that go against my known laws of physics. I can't fly, or move objects very easily. (Still can but it's my own mental block, disbelieving). When I climb a tree or wall I feel my muscles moving just like real life and need to pull myself up by my arms and then use my legs to get a foot hold. I have even felt muscle fatigue after doing something strenuous. I can pick an object up and bob my hand up and down and feel the weight of the object. Those are much different than other lucid dreams I get, and not as common for me.

The heavier an object is in them the harder time I have telekinetically moving it. My own self doubt stops me. Like Luke Skywalker trying to lift the X-wing fighter. He thinks it's too big and heavy and says he'll give it a try. "Try not," Yoda says, "Do... or do not. There is no try." Yoda knows it's all in our heads and does it easily.
Wise words we can all remember when trying to use 'The Force' in lucid dreams. (Or anything else for that matter in dreams and in life....)
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.


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