Is Astral Projection Real?

For those who wish to discuss the purely scientific aspects of sleep and dreams, including new research and future technologies.

What do you think about Astral Projection?

I am neutral, never tried doing it before.
8
35%
It might be real, though I am unsure if there is a difference between it and lucid dreaming.
4
17%
It is real, I have had one/several before.
3
13%
Astral Projection is just another lucid dream in my opinion.
8
35%
 
Total votes: 23

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lucidinthe sky
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Location: Sacramento, California

Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 20 Oct 2013 00:57

HAGART wrote:This is an intervention for Summerlander. :lol:

"We all love you and are trying to help".
"You're addicted to bad derogatory wording."
"One step at a time.... baby steps.... we can get through this", says Mr. Therapist.

Your opinion DOES matter, but the WORDING of it puts people off.

I crack jokes to make light of this, but there is seriousness in humour. :|


You are a wise person, and might I add, one of the kindest people on this forum. :D *


* this smile is a non-sarcastic smile and has been used to indicate that poster genuinely approves of the quoted comments.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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HAGART
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Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby HAGART » 20 Oct 2013 01:15

I thought about this some more and I think Summerlander uses this site sometimes just to vent his frustrations. There are some views from others I disagree with, but I just keep it to myself and words on a page rarely persuade anybody anyway.

Other times Summerlander is very informative and funny, and a joy to hear from.

But if he truly wants to persuade people to take notice and learn, 'you catch more flies with honey than vinegar'. The choice is his and his alone, but then again he has no free will and doesn't believe in that. ;)
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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lucidinthe sky
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Joined: 10 Dec 2011 22:37
Location: Sacramento, California

Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 20 Oct 2013 01:58

HAGART wrote: ...but then again he has no free will.... ;)


Oh shit! I forgot about that. I think we are doomed. :)
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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HAGART
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Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby HAGART » 20 Oct 2013 02:31

He is an automaton sent from the future just to troll us...

Automatons have no free will, but we humans do. Albeit... to a degree. I do like the 'free will' argument, but that's for another day.

(Crack a joke... get serious... you know my routine).
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby Summerlander » 20 Oct 2013 15:37

Yes, that is true. And automaton from the future with no free will. Also, a very opinionated one too.

There is plenty of time to have no opinions and to be silent when this automaton stops working for good.

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

LucidLink
Posts: 405
Joined: 08 Apr 2013 16:48

Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby LucidLink » 20 Oct 2013 16:38

What a nice end to a crazy debate:)

I stepped out a while ago because I realized I was always gonna believe in astral projection and others weren't and that's that, but I always kept up with the thread.

And now I see this thread has gone far beyond beliefs, we've gotten right down to the nitty gritty of human nature!

Interesting topic, great debate and no one wins! Hurrah!:)

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image

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Summerlander
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Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby Summerlander » 21 Oct 2013 00:23

That's true. Great debate.

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Thinker
Posts: 36
Joined: 02 Sep 2013 14:25

Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby Thinker » 21 Oct 2013 15:43

HAGART wrote:He is an automaton sent from the future just to troll us...

Automatons have no free will, but we humans do. Albeit... to a degree. I do like the 'free will' argument, but that's for another day.

(Crack a joke... get serious... you know my routine).


I did not see the rest of the discussion after I left, but...this cannot end here
Do you believe in free will?
Discussion reborn!! :D

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Summerlander
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Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby Summerlander » 21 Oct 2013 16:55

Well, I don't. I think it's an incoherent concept. On a classical level, the universe is deterministic, it follows cause and effect and we are a part of such construct. Not even quantum mechanics, with its probability framework, escapes determinism kick-started since the Big Bang.

In fact, even if one posits the existence of a soul, the notion of free will is still incompatible. The soul's urges to do something are just as mysterious and certainly dependable on what happens environmentally and how one feels about it. Likewise, a soul is also no explanation for a life force or consciousness. One would also have to ask how is a soul conscious? It does not even begin to address the problem.

So, you are as free to decide your next move as you are free to decide what card you will play next. The decision-outcome is constrained by the rules of the game, how things pan out, how one feels about how the game is going, and, of course, the hand that one has been given (which one did not pick).

You did not pick your genome, your gender, your family, what happens to you, or what country you are born. All of these things are beyond your control and you merely behave accordingly because all that you are is atoms and molecules following cause and effect. Free will is an illusion.

Someone who is a manic depressive cannot help this, due to his brain states, and this may lead to his decision to end his life. But this is not a decision from free will. It is an urge that one could not help. Brain states dictate that the will to die is stronger than the will to live in this case. We have will, but it isn't free.

As neuroscientist Sam Harris once put it: "You can decide what you decide but you cannot decide what you will decide."

As the late intellectual Christopher Hitchens once quipped: "Yes, we have free will...because we have no choice." :mrgreen:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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HAGART
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Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby HAGART » 21 Oct 2013 17:20

I think free will is an illusion.
The best we can do is have will power. We can choose to do something unpleasurable now, knowing it will have benefits in the future. Like quitting addictions or dieting. So if you do quit and change your life, you feel good and consider it something you did by sheer free will. But that was just will power. There's a difference.

In actuality all matter and energy moves in predictable ways, so I think my entire life could have been predicted. And since my brain matter is matter too, all my choices as well. To predict it, it would require a hypothetical super computer that knows the placement of every atom and it's energy and movement ect. in the entire galaxy, but I think everything is unfolding as it should in a predictable way. It's just way too much for our meager minds to comprehend.

EDIT: I'll add this. I only realized it later, but I hope all agree:
This is starting to go off on a completely other path.
WE SHOULD ALL AGREE TO LOCK THIS THREAD. (Start a new one about astral projection anytime, but this one's cooked).
Last edited by HAGART on 21 Oct 2013 20:01, edited 1 time in total.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.


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