Is Astral Projection Real?

For those who wish to discuss the purely scientific aspects of sleep and dreams, including new research and future technologies.

What do you think about Astral Projection?

I am neutral, never tried doing it before.
8
35%
It might be real, though I am unsure if there is a difference between it and lucid dreaming.
4
17%
It is real, I have had one/several before.
3
13%
Astral Projection is just another lucid dream in my opinion.
8
35%
 
Total votes: 23

User avatar
lucidinthe sky
Posts: 1135
Joined: 10 Dec 2011 22:37
Location: Sacramento, California

Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 29 Oct 2013 04:51

Summerlander wrote: Why follow a God who orders you around like a dictator and threatens you with hell whilst bribing you with a heaven? No thanks.


Because pain and pleasure are the two main driving forces that motivate people to do what you want. Carrot and stick approach. If your goal is to keep people in line, this is actually a pretty good way to do it. Do what I want, get a reward in heaven, do something I don't want, burn in hell. Fear can be used effectively to keep order and control people, every dictator knows this.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

User avatar
HAGART
Posts: 3179
Joined: 05 Jan 2012 21:09
Location: CANADA

Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby HAGART » 29 Oct 2013 05:41

I have gone a step further and realized that these things called emotions drive me like a horse through life.
If I do good it gives me a reward...."Ahhh... pleasure.... a delicious carrot... yum!" (Feel good. Pat on the back.)
If I do bad it punishes me.... "Ow! is that a spur in my side? How rude!" (Feel guilt. I'll do better next time!)

Emotions drive us and parent us. And we learn through trial and error.
But then sometimes I, and maybe others, step away and question why the carrot is delicious at all and what is 'pain', and who is driving this horse! Who's the driver and puppet master?

And this is very important to lucid dreams because I believe our own emotions are crucial in any success or failure that we want to achieve in that state of mind. Don't care and it's easy. Fear it, and it won't happen.

But who's the true driver? Who's controlling it? Am I just a puppet?
(I have a lot of theories, but that takes a whole new thread and maybe even a life long book. But that's been a challenge of mine since even before I was an avid lucid dreamer.)
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

LucidLink
Posts: 405
Joined: 08 Apr 2013 16:48

Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby LucidLink » 29 Oct 2013 14:24

Summerlander wrote:I see we more or less agree on the God debate. I just hope we don't tread on anyone's toes with our strong posts.

Even so, I might not believe in either but I must admit that astral projection makes more sense than a God, the creator.

One can argue that He could be teaching us, but, why can't He just do it in the blink of an eye and makes see His way? Oh, that's right! He didn't want us eating from the tree of knowledge! We also must pray and kneel before Him to beg like slaves if we want His approval and wish for our lives to run smoothly.

Meanwhile, Neo downloads kung fu into his brain in a matter of seconds, something scientists say can happen in principle. So can the Total Recall scenario where we can have any identity or memories we want.

Why couldn't God just make us all see His light? Why condemn some sinners with eternal damnation when He made them sinful in the first place? Why not just change them and make them good? He is omnipotent, isnt He?

Hence why God is man-made, a concept that shoots itself in the foot. In the Bible, He is not only too human, He appears to possess all the horrible traits an individual could have: He is homicidal, genocidal, selfish, jealous, sadistic, immoral, amoral, a bit dim, negligent, condones child rape and abuse, His tests aren't funny and are unnecessary (why test if He knows everything), gambles with human life (wager with Satan) and has favourites among His children. Also, He sends His only "begotten" son to purge all of mankind's sins. And innocent man made to pay the price of torture and the death penalty while criminals get away with it scott free.

That is the opposite of justice, is it not? Why follow a God who orders you around like a dictator and threatens you with hell whilst bribing you with a heaven? No thanks.

[ Post made via Android ] Image


We can't trust Christanity, or it's stories. It's like the telephone game, Jesus started it, but since him; they've managed to get completely different messages and stories over the years. No religion has it right, but they are on the right track.

I imagine God as something our brains can't quite comprehend. It's no man that suffers from all the traits you listed above. God is all, he's me, he's you, he's the tree outside, he's the love insides us. But how can we truly understand that? "God is all". And I can't really, but it just makes sense from a right brained perspective. To understand God from a left brained perspective, at this time, is impossible. Maybe one day though, with the powerful tool of science:)
And I have a quote to answer to your question.

"You must get through rain before the sunlight."

I also am much more accepting of these debates, thank you for toning it down a bit, these are good talks, I like this. I am not close minded:)


Also I don't believe in hell, God sends all his children to the same place. The only "hell" is here on earth, and we create that, not god. I believe when we die, we enter into a non lucid dream that perfectly replicates physical reality. In this physical reality dream, we subcontiously create a reality for ourselves, which would all be based on how we lived our physical life.

If you created a good physical life, you create a good dream, a "heaven". If you created a bad physical life, you create a bad a dream, a "hell".

Organized religion, is wrong on A LOT of things. And that's what happens when one person, who is supposedly better then everyone else, preaches us HIS beliefs to the ignorant masses.
[ Post made via iPhone ] Image

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 3642
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby Summerlander » 29 Oct 2013 17:41

To me, the reason for our existence is more a question of "how" rather than "why". We are here because the cosmological constant of our universe permitted the emergence of galaxies and their evolution led to our creation. If the energy of this cosmological constant was any higher or lower, we would not exist. It isn't hard to conceive the existence of other universes, but, not all of them have necessarily stumbled upon life. No God involved whatsoever. Any way, this is my worldview and I don't expect you to agree with it. One is free to call the universe and everything in it "God" if they wish. I won't think any less of you. Spinoza was someone I admire and he held a pantheistic belief.

From a scientific point of view, our place in the Milky Way happens to be an ideal breeding ground for abundant life - at least the Goldilocks zone that the Earth happens to be in. Our planet's tilt is also favourable for our life to endure and evolve for a long time. It is like a warm dirty surface where bacteria thrive the most. There is probably intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, but you can bet that Earth is like a needle in a haystack. The life we may find elsewhere may be mostly bacteria, then a percentage will succeed in evolving animal-like or plant-like life before natural annihilation, and, an even smaller portion will have evolved intelligent life like our own or even more advanced.

We must also remember that the life of each human individual here on Earth is microscopically short compared to how old the universe is and how much it will extend ahead. So my philosophy is to make the most of it and learn as much as you can about this wonderful reality while you still can. If there is an emotional gap to be filled deep within me, it is not with the falsehoods of religion or superstition, but rather, science. Even if you are not much for scientific detail or have no interest in becoming versed in scientific knowledge, I bet that you will love keeping up with recent discoveries and breakthroughs.

So, my stance is this: rather than believing in something that has never been proved and seems less likely the more we learn about the nature of things, why not take heed of what has been established already and wonder about the things that have not been solved yet? I'd rather listen to logic, reason without jumping to conclusions, and think freely for myself without being told what to believe if you catch my drift. The only life I am sure of is this one so I'm not going to ignore it or think less of it as I await in the promise of another hypothetical one born from wish-wash.

Death is coming whether we like it or not. The way I deal with it is by realising that I was 'dead' in the times of Aristotle, Rene Descartes, Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein and Kurt Godel and wasn't bothered by it one bit. And, whilst considering myself lucky to live in this amazingly technological age of science, one day I will go back to that non-existent state. The only thing I fear is a slow and painful process of dying. If I'm lucky, the process will be short. But death itself should not worry us because, after all, as far as I know, we won't know that we are dead. There will be no self to know. I often think of the following quotes among other witty ones:

"Life is hard. Then you die. Then they throw dirt in your face. Then the worms eat you. Be grateful it happens in that order."
- David Gerrold

"The fear of death is the most unjustified of all fears, for there's no risk of accident for someone who is dead."
- Albert Einstein

And finally, ask yourself if you would really like to live forever. Imagine an eternity where you can do everything you can possibly think of an infinite number of times. You would get bored shitless to the point of losing your mind. Imagine even thinking the same thoughts and feeling like there is no escape from the madness, as you realise that your eternity gradually kills the new and exciting. You would beg for a release... a release from the pain of being conscious for such a long time. I'm just putting this thought out there...

Now imagine that when you die, everything ceases and you are free from all experience... even your self. Remember those times when you sleep like a log. Well, to be dead is to be beyond that. And the amazing thing is that, while you are alive in deep meditation, you can experience a still-mind, free of concepts, and the realisation of one being intrinsically empty can be achieved. In meditation I realised that the less thoughts I had, the more blissful it got.

The Buddha came to a profound realisation in his meditative practice. He found that he could be anything in his mind, but, most profoundly, he realised that those concepts came from the intrinsic nothing inherent in all of us. The self, he found, is a strong illusion.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

User avatar
lucidinthe sky
Posts: 1135
Joined: 10 Dec 2011 22:37
Location: Sacramento, California

Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 29 Oct 2013 18:02

Summerlander wrote:And finally, ask yourself if you would really like to live forever. Imagine an eternity where you can do everything you can possibly think of an infinite number of times. You would get bored shitless to the point of losing your mind. Imagine even thinking the same thoughts and feeling like there is no escape from the madness, as you realise that your eternity gradually kills the new and exciting. You would beg for a release... a release from the pain of being conscious for such a long time. I'm just putting this thought out there...


I think this a really good point, and I often wonder this too. Maybe there aren't any struggles or challenges in that place we go to after life, my guess is that's true. Then perhaps it's just a temporary resting place, personally the idea of a vacation from this sounds very appealing to me :) And maybe those who don't want that just basically make a U-turn and go right back something like this.

So then as you say, people who go to that place eventually get bored and need more of challenge (to me this is a desire for growth which comes through challenges) so we go to somewhere else, like for example right where we are now.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 3642
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby Summerlander » 29 Oct 2013 18:14

Interesting view, lucid. If that is the case, rebirth means forgetting having been previously conscious and thus the mystery of life and death is perpetual.

At least there are ways around it to avoid mental torture. Unless, of course, reincarnation isn't true and we face the agony of perpetual consciousness without escape.

Anyway, I think we can all agree here that the Biblical God is a load of cobblers. I just found this video: :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-zi25GgVE
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

User avatar
Peter
Posts: 1951
Joined: 26 May 2011 08:02
Location: New Zealand

Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby Peter » 29 Oct 2013 18:24

Imagine an eternity where you can do everything you can possibly think of an infinite number of times. You would get bored shitless to the point of losing your mind


I dont think it would be like that and you are framing another existence with similar properties as this one.

I would expect that eternity would not be long enough to explore another existence and that our minds or whats left will form up our new reality. Imagine if what you think formed you world and therefore your experience of it - just like in this one and it would be up to you to be happy, excited or bored. In the end its all your choice
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

User avatar
lucidinthe sky
Posts: 1135
Joined: 10 Dec 2011 22:37
Location: Sacramento, California

Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 29 Oct 2013 19:05

In a reality with endless possibilities, the idea of endless time sounds really good. In a new reality where we can create, explore, experience things that are even beyond anything we could imagine or are capable of here on Earth, boredom may not ever happen.

I seldom get bored in this existence, which to me is fairly limited. Just look how big our universe is, and we are just on this tiny speck called Earth, orbiting one star among billions in a sea of galaxies that may be more than a billion. I can spend hours looking at other galaxies in my telescope and not even move it more than a few degrees in the sky. We shouldn't limit our expectations to what we can imagine now.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

User avatar
Peter
Posts: 1951
Joined: 26 May 2011 08:02
Location: New Zealand

Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby Peter » 29 Oct 2013 19:18

I seldom get bored in this existence


Same and that is how I look at it. If after all the time we have spent on this earth we are still looking and discovering then I would expect an unbounded reality to be the same + some

I look forward to it but also think that how you are or how you think and live will make you world here there or anywhere

I would like a telescope, what are you using and how much detail can you see with it?
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 3642
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Is Astral Projection Real?

Postby Summerlander » 29 Oct 2013 21:48

I wonder if you guys will be saying that when you are older. I've seen some people in their 90s who are pretty fed up. Again, if in an eternal afterlife we never get bored because our stream of experience is unlike the earthly one then I assume that we would have a terrible memory in order to be able to have novelty for all time.

Imagine that you could relive this life over and over again and remember it every time. Csn you honestly tell me that you eould never get bored? Or imagine dropping an object and picking it up to drop it again and so on for eternity. I don't think it's a matter of choice to not get bored. I think everyone has a threshold and everyone breaks.

Living forever would plague you to ask the same question an infinite number of times: What haven't I done yet?

And if you don't feel the need to ask such question and are quite happy with repetition, if you don't feel like you are wasting your time by not bothering to find novelty as you struggle to stretch your imagination beyond what you have already been exposed to, then I take my hat off to you...

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


Return to “Dream Science”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest