Why Do We Dream?

For those who wish to discuss the purely scientific aspects of sleep and dreams, including new research and future technologies.
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Summerlander
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Re: Why Do We Dream?

Postby Summerlander » 12 Nov 2013 12:54

So, to be precise, when we are awake, the voltage is lower but the waves are more frequent - this in itself could be a signature for waking consciousness.

When we are deeply asleep, voltage is higher but the waves are less frequent and slow. So it is not entirely accurate to say the brain is more active when we sleep.

The lucid dream state is the hybrid as it displays both wakefulness and dreaming signatures simultaneously and where specific brain regions, such as the temporal lobes, appear to be more active. The range is 40 Hz, Gamma. Lucid dreaming is not dreaming, it is a separate and distinct hybrid state in its own right (hence why we call it the "phase state" at the OOBE Research Centre).

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Summerlander
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Re: Why Do We Dream?

Postby Summerlander » 12 Nov 2013 13:20

As for the rebooting possibility (I should have quotation-marked the word - my apologies) I don't mean it in the sense of switching off the brain to cause it to load its programs again like a computer. I mean it in terms of consciousness. Whatever causes consciousness is more prominent when we are awake (low voltage, rapid rhythm indication). This is lost in deep sleep. However, consciousness begins to re-emerge (though not fully) when we approach REM. The dreams go from thought-like to lifelike and begin to include senses like vision and audition. The reality-making programs have re-started, but, because we are still not getting any sensory input from the real physical world, our reality-makers conjure up non-existent models (not from scratch, but information that is readily available from memory and a mishmash of arising thoughts).

Again, to mention lucid dreaming as a separate state, it borrows the best of both worlds (sleep and wakefulness): hyper-realistically vivid dream environments and full waking consciousness in one. At least this is the optimal lucid dream state for any lucid dreamer. (There is always a spectrum with anything.)

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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KungFuPanther
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Re: Why Do We Dream?

Postby KungFuPanther » 12 Nov 2013 22:43

Summerlander wrote:As for the rebooting possibility (I should have quotation-marked the word - my apologies) I don't mean it in the sense of switching off the brain to cause it to load its programs again like a computer. I mean it in terms of consciousness. Whatever causes consciousness is more prominent when we are awake (low voltage, rapid rhythm indication). This is lost in deep sleep. However, consciousness begins to re-emerge (though not fully) when we approach REM. The dreams go from thought-like to lifelike and begin to include senses like vision and audition. The reality-making programs have re-started, but, because we are still not getting any sensory input from the real physical world, our reality-makers conjure up non-existent models (not from scratch, but information that is readily available from memory and a mishmash of arising thoughts).

Again, to mention lucid dreaming as a separate state, it borrows the best of both worlds (sleep and wakefulness): hyper-realistically vivid dream environments and full waking consciousness in one. At least this is the optimal lucid dream state for any lucid dreamer. (There is always a spectrum with anything.)

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Okay, Yeah, I think I got that. I think a cross between your theory and mine is the most plausible answer.
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Summerlander
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Re: Why Do We Dream?

Postby Summerlander » 13 Nov 2013 00:17

Make no mistake about it: dreaming is a byproduct of evolution. The resulting complexity in our brains, moulded by genetic codes, environmental changes, and, well, natural selection in general, produces the consciousness we have today. Why we should be conscious at all is the real puzzle here.

I'd just like to point out that evolution is a fact. The evidence for it is undeniable. The holes you refer to are probably the results of the earth failing to preserve certain dead organisms. (Not everything fossilises as certain natural conditions are required for that.)

Yes, they call it a "theory," but a scientific theory is not to be mistaken for our quotidian use of the term. A scientific theory is backed up by a lot of work involving observations and calculations. Predictions are made or the theory is tested at an early stage. Evolution has survived the test of time and overwhelming evidence for it is undeniable.

Which brings me to the next point. We are all assuming that dreams will always be beneficial to us but if things changes for the worse one might imagine a scenario where they could be detrimental. Evolution isn't there to specifically benefit us. There are misfiring byproducts...

For example: the moth evolved its own biological compass to detect light from the moon and stars to find its way to its habitat. But its evolution could not predict that humans would evolve to become intelligent and creative enough to invent artificial light - which actually disorientates them and leads them astray. (What? Did you think they wanted to mate with our lights)

So the once useful compass became a misfiring byproduct. Something similar could happen with dreams, we just don't know.

Many of our primate ancestors became extinct. Homo sapiens could be next if our intelligence isn't all that's cracked up to be. Survival of the fittest applies to those species who best adapt to their environments and don't change so much.

If we hadn't left the savanah when we did, we would not have survived. As chance has it, we were forced to change dramatically from what our prehistoric ape-like ancertors used to look like. We grew larger brain but our bodies are frail. The ape of today is best suited to climb trees and survive in the jungle. It has an ideal body, does not require a large thinking brain, and has not changed as dramatically as we have from our prehistoric ancestors.

Now, here are some questions about our primate 'cousins': Do they dream? If so, do they need to dream? What about? And, what good could it do to them?

-just expanding the subject... ;-)

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Summerlander
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Re: Why Do We Dream?

Postby Summerlander » 13 Nov 2013 00:24

Also, another question I wanted to pose: In Darwinian terms, who do you think is fitter in its habitat: the humanor the ape?

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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HAGART
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Re: Why Do We Dream?

Postby HAGART » 13 Nov 2013 05:11

Humans live anywhere from tropical rain forests, to deserts, to tundras. The whole Earth is our habitat, so I'd say we are fittest to survive as long as we stay in our monkey troop (civilization). Then again, more people die in an urban jungle than a tropical one. And there are those who are survivalists that can live off the land.

So I don't know, but perhaps dreams are what gave us the creativity to build our cities and man-made habitats....

I think I may be on to something. It takes a creative mind to imagine a new tool and see the blue prints in your mind and think of the procedure to make them. It could also be called, 'Day' Dreaming. That's what separated us from the other apes. Tools lead to farming, houses, cities, machines ect., which are all a natural product of evolution. Cities are natural just like a beehive or a beaver dam. Natural doesn't always mean clean though, and bacteria and other life forms can turn clean water into a cesspool. ;)

So I now think that creativity in a mind, the ability to imagine and visualize something that can not be sensed in the present, is a reason why we dream when asleep. But which came first? Are we creative because we dream, or do we dream as a byproduct of being creative? What came first, the chicken or the egg?

And when I think about it, a dream is similar to a day dream. Unlike during the day, however, when we are asleep there are no external distractions and stimuli, so it becomes our whole reality for the time we are there. Perhaps they are the same phenomenon. If so, could we 'lucid day dream'..... :idea:
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.


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