Common to beginners?: Subc. nightmaring me after LD.

A place to share and analyze your dreams (lucid or otherwise) to better understand your dreams' subconscious symbolism.
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RosenVitae
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Common to beginners?: Subc. nightmaring me after LD.

Postby RosenVitae » 04 Jan 2012 12:42

This night I had my first deliberate LD, very short and harmless experience (written in Share Your Lucid Dreams forum).

I had a false awakening, losing lucidity and forgetting reality checks (I started recording the LD, haha ^^).

This new dream was about my family, and the resulting nightmare might have to do with them. I'll jump to the point, though.

At the end of this dream, I was in my bedroom of my last appartment (wearing nothing but boxers), when I hear my family yelling from below outside the window about "THE FRONT DOOR!" and "RUN!!" (this version of the appartment was about 1 meter above ground level). It took me a moment of "thinking" before reacting, going to my room door and pulling the handle: there was resistance (someone on the other side was holding it shut!) I stepped back, the door opened and in stepped "It"; the clown from Stephen King's movie (which I saw when I was far too young), holding a knife. "It" started stating some demands one by one, while I was trying to plot an escape. I spun around to open the window and jump, but for some reason, a pair of jeans with both legs spun tight, was just beloiw the window, wedging itself in, so I had trouble opening the window. Adrenaline kicked in and I felt "It" was lunging at my back, and I woke up suddenly, but calmly, in my bed. It has been a long time since I had a nightmare (even about "It"), but for an hour or so, whenever I reached the hypnagogic state, I saw/felt the presence of "It" and felt some fear. I eventually fell asleep and had another dream entirely.


I'm wondering if this could be because of my prior lucidity (the subc. feeling intruded upon or something).
Has anyone else experienced a nightmare after a LD?
Any thoughts?

Thanks :)
Started training: 18/12-2011.
First deliberate LD: 4/1-2012 (DILD).
Lucidities after that: 26/3-2012 (DILD during nap), 1/6-2012 (DILD during nap),

jamjam
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Joined: 21 Sep 2011 22:25

Re: Common to beginners?: Subc. nightmaring me after LD.

Postby jamjam » 05 Jan 2012 05:02

After an LD, the probability of a false awakening rises dramatically! to stop this, do a RC right after waking up. To stop nightmares, talk to your subconscious about the nightmare. I'm sure you'll be able to clear it all up. After having a nice chat I never had my nightmare ever again. Nightmares can induce lucidity! If something weird or scary happens, do a RC. I bid you goodnight and...

Sweet dreams...
jamjam

Snaggle
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Re: Common to beginners?: Subc. nightmaring me after LD.

Postby Snaggle » 05 Jan 2012 10:13

RosenVitae if you were lucid you would have not thought you had a "false awakening" One is just as intelligent when lucid and has full access to ones normal memories. It's normal for dreams to be followed by nightmares- that really happens every time one does a full WILD with all the stages of sleep. As you're doing DILDs or trying to you need to expect to become lucid both in dreams and nightmares. False awakenings are so realistic and consistent with ones real life that they can fool anyone-just hope you're lucky and does not get them strung back to back.
"There is only one God and his name is Death.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel

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Summerlander
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Re: Common to beginners?: Subc. nightmaring me after LD.

Postby Summerlander » 05 Jan 2012 18:59

Actually, Snaggie, that is very much an erroneous statement.

I classify all of the following experiences as being one phenomenon only but entered in different ways: OOBEs, AP, LD, FAs = The phase state (lucidity). Bearing this in mind, I will show you exactly why you have gone wrong and jamjam is correct...

False awakenings are phase entries too. An individual, in this case, enters the phase unknowingly but questions the nature of the surroundings because self-awareness is present and the analytical mind can easily spot the illogical in the dream world. You are not sure about the nature of your environment but I can assure you that EEG scans would show you to be in the lucid state! You will remember waking life memories, who you are and you are pretty much "awake" in the dream environment.

Then you have wake-initiated and dream-initiated phase states (WILDs and DILDs). When you enter the phase from wakefulness using a separation method, you may at first wonder if you really entered the phase or if you simply got up physically. This may prompt you to examine the surroundings to be sure. You are, despite the uncertainty, in the phase state and EEG would confirm this.

In the phase, there is self-awareness and realism of perception. The latter, however, does not mean that the environment will always emulate or excel the waking world in quality. The phantom reality of the phase, in some cases, may require deepening (like tuning into a channel).

Whatever the case, self-awareness is always unmistakably present in the phase just as it is in wakefulness. For lack of a better word, you are basically fully awake in a dream world even if clarity is not 100%. In fact, because you are self-aware, lack of clarity may annoy you and prompt you to make the environment as crystal clear as possible.

Likewise, you may also dream about being in the phase but not be in the phase. Again, EEG would show this. It would simply be a non-lucid dream state where the idea of entering the phase plays in your mind and you dream about it as you would dream about running away from zombies and completely believe it. It is also worth bearing in mind that REM dreams can be extremely vivid and yet that does not mean that you are lucid (i.e. in the phase).

Take a look at these images to further illustrate what I'm trying to say:

Image
Image
http://lucidologia.blogspot.com/p/english.html
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

LucidDreamer
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Re: Common to beginners?: Subc. nightmaring me after LD.

Postby LucidDreamer » 06 Jan 2012 13:47

What a fantastic picture..love it!! :)

I get false awakenings quite alot. Often I will think im awake and go to the kitchen for a drink..The clock will be spinning fast or if I try and switch the light on my hand goes through the wall! On time I went to the bathroom and returned to bed, only to see myself tucked up and sleeping..Sometimes in can happen a few times before I wake up! Its all very strange isn't it, strange but funny..

I find that on a false awakening once I realize im still dreaming I wake up instantly.. Only once have I been able to carry the dream along. Thinking I was awake, I went to the kitchen, put the kettle on and started getting the kids breakfast ready..I heard a noise from outside and opened the curtains..It was raining, but all the colours of the rainbow! So I went for a fly around :)

Snaggle
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Re: Common to beginners?: Subc. nightmaring me after LD.

Postby Snaggle » 16 Jan 2012 11:42

Summerlander wrote:Actually, Snaggie, that is very much an erroneous statement.

I classify all of the following experiences as being one phenomenon only but entered in different ways: OOBEs, AP, LD, FAs = The phase state (lucidity). Bearing this in mind, I will show you exactly why you have gone wrong and jamjam is correct...

False awakenings are phase entries too. An individual, in this case, enters the phase unknowingly but questions the nature of the surroundings because self-awareness is present and the analytical mind can easily spot the illogical in the dream world. You are not sure about the nature of your environment but I can assure you that EEG scans would show you to be in the lucid state! You will remember waking life memories, who you are and you are pretty much "awake" in the dream environment.


Summerland in a lucid dream one is conscious but not awake with full awareness of who you are and your memories. The original poster said he was lucid and then had a "false awakening". When he "woke up" in his old apartment it would have been obvious to him that he was still dreaming if he had been lucid. In a real false awakening one "wakes up" where one is really sleeping and in ones "real body" and everything seems to be like ones reality-exactly why a false awakening can fool one if if you're lucid when they happen.

summerland wrote:Then you have wake-initiated and dream-initiated phase states (WILDs and DILDs). When you enter the phase from wakefulness using a separation method, you may at first wonder if you really entered the phase or if you simply got up physically. This may prompt you to examine the surroundings to be sure. You are, despite the uncertainty, in the phase state and EEG would confirm this.


You seem to be using S. LaBerge's defective definition of a WILD and thus make the mistake of thinking that there is a phase state (AKA that rem and Lucidity and dreams go together a too simple theory) WILD don't start with separation methods;they start with a simple transition from being awake and being conscious while dreaming and when one is conscious/lucid throughout the sleep cycle one always has nightmares.
"There is only one God and his name is Death.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel

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Summerlander
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Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Common to beginners?: Subc. nightmaring me after LD.

Postby Summerlander » 16 Jan 2012 20:58

LOL! Snaggle, it is very simple: OOBEs, where a person seemingly separates from the physical body, are equivalent to WILDs that convey such illusion. Whether you jump into a dream scene or whether you perceive the illusion of separation from the body into a dream bedroom, with a dream bed and a dream double of you apparently asleep in bed (that you take to be your physical body) makes no difference.

I work with Michael Raduga at the OOBE Research Center and head one of its departments. I also coordinate experiments by subjects for future publishing and represent a branch of his school here in the UK. I am teaching methods to enter the phase state as we speak.

There is no difference between lucid dreams and OOBEs. Both are dissociative experiences in that you perceive yourself to be somewhere else other than your physical body. In fact, both can be said to be out-of-body experiences (but note, only in experience - it's not real).

It is simply the phase state, a hybrid between wakefulness and dreaming. You merely experience the dream world lucidly rather than mindlessly as is usual of "drunken" non-lucid dreams. The brain activity confirms this and it comes of no surprise that one must apply anchor techniques if one wants to remain in such a state for longer lest you wake up (wakefulness takes over) or you fall asleep in the phase and start experiencing mere dreaming (dream state takes over).

Our research is beyond LaBerge's. He laid the foundation and his work is revolutionary but the practical approach in Michael Raduga's guidebook gets right down to the nitty-gritty. If you want to learn more from me you are welcome to send me an email or PM. From reading your post I understand that you also lack knowledge of a free-floating state of mind that arises with direct techniques for phase entry. Indirect techniques are the easiest though because they are performed upon awakening. Then you have the deferred method, which I use quite a lot (what many call wbtb). I usually separate from the body (so to speak) and so far my experience tells me that the world of the phase is not real. It's a grand illusion. Everything including you! And it doesn't stop at objects...space and distance...if you think they are actual and that you are really moving away from a physical body you are mistaken.

Now, coming to your last statement about being awake through the induction. The term WILD means wake-initiated lucid dream..."initiated", it does not mean that afterwards you are awake. It is more correct to say that you enter a dream lucidly. and if you think you have remained awake throughout, think again...many lapses in consciousness are not perceptible.

You are also wrong when you say that one always has nightmares if one is lucid throughout the sleep cycle. This is like saying cheese gives you nightmares which is absolute poppycock. If that is your case then I urge you to rethink your views that nightmares always take place because that may be the very think that makes you experience them. You can't speak for other people and certainly not me. Your knowledge on the subject is clearly diminished but there is no shame, I can give you lessons.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Peter
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Joined: 26 May 2011 08:02
Location: New Zealand

Re: Common to beginners?: Subc. nightmaring me after LD.

Postby Peter » 17 Jan 2012 07:51

I have always stated that it is all in my mind and am happy with that as so is everthing else I do, it starts there and ends up there so no issues with that. I will PM you if you could include me in what you are going to send, I am very interested in pursuing these states and would welcome anything that will help

Peter
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born


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