Visiting People in OBE/LD and Verification

Tell us about your first lucid dream - and your latest. We want all the juicy details. Also share results of dream challenge experiments.
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HAGART
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Re: Visiting People in OBE/LD and Verification

Postby HAGART » 18 Nov 2013 03:38

Even if everyone decided not to use a device like that because it invades our privacy, the NSA certainly would if it existed. (Maybe they already have started dabbling in it).
It would be like Big Brother.
Or like another movie, 'Minority Report'! They would apprehend people for having criminal thoughts.

I actually hope telepathy is not possible. It sounds wonderful at first, but it's not a good thing at all.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: Visiting People in OBE/LD and Verification

Postby Summerlander » 18 Nov 2013 16:28

I like Minority Report. It's pretty dark and illustrates just my point. Plus, it also shows that the rules did not apply to everyone. Some will always find their way above the law for however long and cronies may get their "out-of-jail" cards.

I completely agree with you about telepathy. I know many would hope it's true and I have a quote from Christopher Hitchens for those individuals: "Just as many of the people who believe in numinous coincidence and supernatural intervention are secretly hoping to prove that it is they themselves who are the pet of the universe, so many of those who overcompensate for inferiority are possessed of titanic egos and regard other people as necessary but incidental." (Okay, he was talking about Arthur Koestler, but still, it is applicable to the type.)

I, for once, hope it's all in the head and am glad more evidence weighs in favour of it. After all, people can often see religious figures on toasted bread. Here is an excerpt from a paper that often uses the word "hallucination" and "apparitional": ("Perception and Hallucination: The case for Continuity," where metachoric experiences are concerned and where Occam's razor is applicable.)

"Celia Green & McCreery (1975) proposed the term ‘metachoric’ for those experiences in which the normal perceptual field was completely replaced by a hallucinatory one. Uncontroversial examples of such experiences would be so-called ‘out-of-the-body’ experiences, in which the subject seems to see his/her body from outside, and certain lucid dreams, in which the dreamer is aware that he or she is dreaming and which in certain instances apparently meet all the criteria of vividness, detail, etc., which we expect of normal perception. More controversially, perhaps, an examination of the phenomenology of apparitional experiences occurring to ostensibly normal people led them to the conclusion that possibly all of these were metachoric as well, even if most of the environment appeared to be veridical, and only one element, namely the figure of the apparition, definitely was not. The metachoric interpretation of apparitional experiences is clearly forced upon us in certain sub-classes of such cases, for example those in which the ostensible lighting of the whole scene is modified during the experience. About a quarter of all the cases reported to us occurred just after the subject had woken up during the night, and in these circumstances it can happen that the subject reports seeing an apparently veridical image of his or her bedroom as if “lit up” by the apparition, or indeed by some other unidentified source of apparent illumination. In such cases it is clear that the entire visual field is hallucinatory, not just the figure of the apparition. Green & McCreery (1994) argued that Occam’s Razor may be applied in favour of the thesis that all apparitional experiences are in fact metachoric. We know for certain that some of these experiences, like those lighting cases described above, must be; we know of no reason why all the rest may not be. Therefore it is simpler to posit a single process, namely the occurrence of a totally hallucinatory field of perception, to explain the entire class of cases, rather than two processes, viz. the metachoric for those instances in which it is forced upon us, and the two-process model in those cases in which it is not. This argument seems especially forceful if one remembers the difficulties involved in the two-process model which we have discussed above."

http://www.celiagreen.com/charlesmccreery/perception.pdf

A hallucination is often classed as a delusion, where illusions are perceived, and from these, mistaken or unfounded opinions can arise. I'd like to think this extends as far as the realm of apparent remote viewing, where one's delusions can sometimes be 'confirmed' by coincidental elements in reality (which, in all fairness, could be as fluky as a jackpot win).

"Metachoric" implies self-referential creation, nothing to do with the external world (at least not directly) let alone the minds of others (!). Still, I would not dismiss 'mental entanglement' as possibly allowed by physicalism and enabled by the phase state (LD/OBE/FA) just yet. It seems more feasible than far-fetched in Persinger's defence once we take a look at the quantum realm rules that challenge our logic.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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taniaaust1
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Re: Visiting People in OBE/LD and Verification

Postby taniaaust1 » 30 Nov 2013 04:26

HAGART wrote:I don't know if I'd want such a device to exist though. Having no privacy would drive me crazy! Poker wouldn't be fun any more either! 8-)
Then again, there would be no more secrets and only those with things to hide, and who manipulate people, are the ones who should worry. (There's lots of people like that in this world. They call themselves, Politicians ;) ). Until then, we should all use our own internal "B.S. Meter". It's actually quite reliable if people chose to turn it on.


Those powerful ones who are into manipulating people.. goverment highups etc, if such a machine was invented, I bet they'd have found a way to block others from using it on them.
The only thing to fear is the fear itself

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HAGART
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Re: Visiting People in OBE/LD and Verification

Postby HAGART » 30 Nov 2013 07:19

True. I thought of that too.
There would be ways to block the signal just like evading a radar.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: Visiting People in OBE/LD and Verification

Postby Summerlander » 30 Nov 2013 11:33

They are still using lie detectors, mentalists and torture techniques. Politicians still make mistakes (or decisions based on not knowing what's on the minds of the enemy. I doubt they have a machine like that. There is still a huge debate going on about Iran regarding nuclear power.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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