Does anyone else do this?
In the past, I have had sleep paralysis, where I can feel my eyelids as an impenetrable wall above my head, like they're made of immovable stone, and are much, much larger than I am... When this would happen, I would be often locked in a cycle of false awakenings for a while, and it could get quite terrifying sometimes. I have since purged myself of a lot of subconscious insecurity, and this doesn't really happen anymore
1 - Why is it that the same techniques are used to induce both OOBEs and lucid dreams but individuals call their experiences by different names and often have trouble deciding what their experience was?
2 - Why is it that the world of lucid dreaming and the environment encountered upon a separation from the body display the same fundamental properties?
3 - If the world of lucid dreaming can take on any form and display any properties imaginable, then how can one tell the difference between a so-called real separation from the body into the "astral plane" from a simulated dreamscape?
I have also posted in another forum in regards to this:
I work with Raduga. Statistics show that the dream world is lucidly visited from wakefulness (in the case of OOBEs) by the majority. All I need to do is go over the emails that have been sent to me by volunteers.
At first, you may think it is really the physical world on some instances. But further exploration and usually if you deepen will reveal inconsistencies. sometimes they only become apparent in wakefulness after you've had time to make comparisons between what was presented to you in the phase and what is really there in actuality.
There is something that you might want to look at too about split-brain people. You see, dreaming doesn't just happen in the right-brain hemisphere as was previously thought. Left-brain plays a role too. In fact, these people often describe dreams to be very true to life - possibly heavily reliant on memory, totalitarian in its realism and devoid of imagination or surrealism.
While that comes natural to them because their corpus callosum has been severed, to us, it may only come once in a blue moon. Check out the feasibility of brain hemispheres at play first and then tell me whether or not this could be responsible for such beliefs as Locale I and II or ethereal and astral projection.
The fact is that any reality we experience is a manifestation created on the "screen" of our conscious awareness. We can do this with or without a body, with or without the external inputs of the physical world we are temporarily residing in. We will take these abilities with us when we leave here.
Summerland you're not qualified to judge as you don't seem to ever had a genuine WILD and all your OBE appear to have happened during sleep. There may be real OBE and dream OBE at the same time.
[quote=”Summerland”]1 - Why is it that the same techniques are used to induce both OOBEs and lucid dreams but individuals call their experiences by different names and often have trouble deciding what their experience was?[/quote]
This is a point that you're absolutely wrong on. Vajayana yogins have practiced both milam (dream yoga/ AKA lucid dreaming) and phowa (astral projection) for over a thousand years and it's a very conservative estimate that at least a million people have practiced both. The techniques of milam are very much like the current techniques of lucid dreaming, but phowa yoga is extremely different. One starts by doing breathing exercises that are physically taxing, that make one more alert and the body more awake in contrast to lucid dreaming and in particular WILDs where one relaxes the body allowing it to become drowsy which triggers the brain to enter a NREM dream state. In a WILD: one always enters light sleep in which NREM dream images appear; followed by some dream images signaling the onset of atonia; followed by REM dreams. In a real WILD one starts out fully awake and the next step is into NREM sleep, but one is not disassociated from the body in NREM, if one opens ones eyes one will be awake and one can move ones body. In Phowa ones body is not relaxed, one projects out of it almost instantly with no dream images coming before, any sign of atonia or REM dreams and one is completely separate from ones body.
[quote=”Summerland”]2 - Why is it that the world of lucid dreaming and the environment encountered upon a separation from the body display the same fundamental properties?[/quote]
If one is having a dream of an OBE the environments would be identical as they are the same. There would if definite signs that one was having a dream experience such as: “waking up” out of body; suddenly waking up without any return to the body; having lapses in consciousness or drifting in and out of sleep. Dreams however vivid are never consistent, they always have a break from reality or conscious experience.
[quote=”Summerland”]3 - If the world of lucid dreaming can take on any form and display any properties imaginable, then how can one tell the difference between a so-called real separation from the body into the "astral plane" from a simulated dreamscape?[/quote]
Since OBE and astral planes are separate, though related, they should not be lumped together. We can dismiss all accounts of astral planes and afterlives as some sort of dreaming or dreamlike experience as the accounts don't agree on what is in that world and show strong signs of “incubation”, even with the astral experiences being rejected as a dreams the question remains open. Is the OBE projection and experience of a spirit real with that spirit like the body being able to experience both being awake and dreaming.
[quote=Summerland”]I work with [Michael] Raduga. Statistics show that the dream world is lucidly visited from wakefulness (in the case of OOBEs) by the majority. All I need to do is go over the emails that have been sent to me by volunteers.
At first, you may think it is really the physical world on some instances. But further exploration and usually if you deepen will reveal inconsistencies. sometimes they only become apparent in wakefulness after you've had time to make comparisons between what was presented to you in the phase and what is really there in actuality.[/quote]
This is one of the things that bothers me immensely about both you and Raduga ( or whatever his real name is) you are both gathering invalid statistics from those who have been exposed to his training and are inclined to agree with him and to be influenced by incubation in their dreams. Cherry picking invalidates any survey and you certainly have done that.
You yourself have claimed that you OBE and WILD out of sleep paralysis, but SP fails the gold standard of consistency which is the ultimate reality test. One can't do a WILD at all out of a dream and any OBE happening out of SP or anything connected to a “short lapses [in consciousness]; memory gaps or drifting in and out of consciousness. In neither WILDs nor traditional OBE is there any break in consciousness. One should at least consider the Vicky Naratuk's NDE as those blind from birth don't see in dreams, naturally her account is suspect as we can't test whether she saw or not Blind woman SEES while OUT OF BODY. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HbtoX3Q5OI The Pam Reynold's account is much more sound and scientific as the whole was observed and had verified elements. It's not really possible to dismiss her case because it was as close to a scientific test as we're likely to ever have.
Medical Proof of mind and memory outside the body 1of 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM81dxIx6Ow&feature=related
Medical proof of consciousness and memory outside of the body 2/2 Pseudoskepticshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksvGaonRqjw
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel
Snaggle: I asked people to answer my questions without theory but you have still managed to do it including fruitless mysticism and unreliable stories.
There is so much you have to learn and I think you would do well to experiment and carry out your own study rather than reading unreliable material out there and completely accepting it without question. I really mean it from the bottom of my heart.
I have a question for you though. How old are you?
R99 wrote:This place is so cool. I got good thing to laugh about from this section by the way luciddreamer nice lines, and summerlander i got the same question about snaggle. Thanks for asking. hey Snaggle one more thing, how can u manage to collect all these notes?;
I'm a short sleeper and read or watch/listen to youtube with my extra 4 hours a day. Most of you have 16 hour days I have 20 hour days That also means I've had much more experience at any given age than the rest of you! I've had over 30 years experience of doing intentional WILDs and that does mean unbroken consciousness throughout sleep.
Summerland do you really believe you have a heart- how amusing! I knew you were going to troll in reply your trolling- you've just proved that you're illogical and topped it off with a lie-coal and dung for you next Christmas lad
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel
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