Are dream character's conscious?

What have you learned from your dream characters? What do they say, what do they represent, what motivates them, why do they exist?
Vonozar
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Re: Are dream character's conscious?

Postby Vonozar » 06 Dec 2013 07:10

Summerlander wrote:
Scientists have phone that if people stop thinking too hard about solving a problem and just let the "unconscious" side take over, those eureka moments will come unexpectedly! We have to remember that the higher cortical areas do a lot of thinking but are slow to act (slow response). However, closer to the primordial layer, there is not much thinking (dead zone) but the response is fast and intuitional. While the neocortex is more constrained by thinking patterns, the lower one contains a subconscious see of information where anything goes, and this zone often makes associations between concepts that the logical side wouldn't normally do.

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Thanks for sharing that. :)

HAGART wrote:
I never thought of that, but I suppose you're right. It would get boring if they always knew it was a dream and your lucid powers and 'magic tricks' never impressed them. That's some of my favorite things to do when I become lucid around others in a dream. I like to show off my 'powers'. But I've had some dreams where they DC's are aware it's a dream, and they are not impressed.


Exactly. It's rare that I get to impress them, but it's fun! I wonder if I asked them to 'be dumb unless I tell you otherwise' what they would do. I enjoy the :shock: :o :shock: looks they give in those circumstances when you suddenly hover off the floor. :lol: However if I did that, I don't think it would be the same. I'd know they were just acting surprised based on how they are usually. That or they would just ask why and I would be like "Because I want to see your surprised face when I...Um, I mean I want to act all awesome and watch as you...freak out... OH YOU KNOW WHAT NEVER MIND!!!" . So to all of you who take them for granted, enjoy your 'zombies'! They're pretty darn fun! ;)

charmingamy
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Re: Are dream character's conscious?

Postby charmingamy » 06 Dec 2013 12:29

Ok but how about this. In my ld this morning i walked up to a lady who was sitting in the middle of the street and she could not see me. Every one else in the dream could see me but her. Has any one experienced this?

However i do remember me thinking a few seconds before that happened " hey i can just walk past the people and they wont even know".I did not conciously desire that though. Did i somehow willed her not to see me by sayong that even though i did not really plan to think that?

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Summerlander
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Re: Are dream character's conscious?

Postby Summerlander » 06 Dec 2013 13:43

It is important to remember that it is not just desire that makes things happen in dreams. There are other emotions like fear and unconscious 'what ifs.' After all, lucid dreams also have the potention to bring painful and scary experiences. Unless, of course, on a deeper level we are masochistically in love with chaos and mystery - just as we vicariously love the drama shown on TV.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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deschainXIX
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Re: Are dream character's conscious?

Postby deschainXIX » 07 Dec 2013 04:45

Hagart, that bit with you talking to your subconscious over the phone is AWESOME. Perhaps the most interesting and direct confrontation with the subconscious I've heard of yet. I'll try that, but it'd be hard to tell whether it's actually my subconscious or something else.
When she called her living place "the dead zone," it gave me the chills. It's so eerie! But I get the creeping intuition that you stumbled upon something monumental. (Unless you experienced something during the day having to with the phrase "the dead zone," in which case it'd just be residue; left overs.)
I've also speculated that the subconscious is merely "the dark half" or "reciprocal" of the conscious and that, from its point of view, WE are the subconscious. It's kind of scary thinking about it. The most pure, rawest form of yourself ... a mostly insane, but direct, concise, and vastly intelligent dark half, sleeping during the day, and ranting during the night.

Summerlander wrote:Unless, of course, on a deeper level we are masochistically in love with chaos and mystery - just as we vicariously love the drama shown on TV.

Yeah, I think that too. It explains why tragedy, as a dramatic element, is appealing.
And here's something terrible that I've never admitted to anyone before: Whenever I first hear of something horrible happening ... deep deep deep down there is this tiny little flare ... of excitement--and I could almost say glee. And then, of course, the proper response kicks in: horror, dread, misery. My dark half resonating from deep within?
Well said.

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Summerlander
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Re: Are dream character's conscious?

Postby Summerlander » 07 Dec 2013 14:06

It seems to be a viable explanation indeed. Perhaps a primitive side stemming from the glee experienced by our tribal ancestors whenever the enemy was defeated. We inherited that from them but, since the world has become more united, in a sense, it has atrofied and it is barely a guilty pleasure. We naturally repress our sadomasochism. (But it still finds expression in dreams, art, and religion - the latter having a tortured Christ on the cross to pay for our sins and millions worshipping the image.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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HAGART
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Re: Are dream character's conscious?

Postby HAGART » 08 Dec 2013 05:25

deschainXIX wrote:(Unless you experienced something during the day having to with the phrase "the dead zone," in which case it'd just be residue; left overs.)


No, it wasn't. Good thing you ask though, to clear it up, because that 'residue' can happen all the time, and I usually know it came from a recent memory. But this time it didn't. My only knowledge of 'The Dead Zone' is a book by Stephen King, but I never read it and don't even know what it's about! But intuitively, I got the feeling it meant a void space, or nowhereland.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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deschainXIX
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Re: Are dream character's conscious?

Postby deschainXIX » 09 Dec 2013 01:11

So dream characters are just our subconscious...
Much like we are when we are non-lucid. So where is the line between US and the dream characters? Or is there even one? And, in that regard, couldn't a DC become lucid, like us?

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Well said.

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HAGART
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Re: Are dream character's conscious?

Postby HAGART » 09 Dec 2013 01:27

deschainXIX wrote:And, in that regard, couldn't a DC become lucid, like us?


Some are lucid and know it's a dream, and others do not. Just like "I" can be lucid or not lucid in a dream. Do they have a sense of "I", too, in a dream if they are lucid? A sense of self, even if it's short lived?

Can it go the other way around? Can a DC be lucid in a dream of mine where, I myself am not lucid? I have an example from a dream:

I was at a party with strangers, and trying to find food to eat since every time I looked down at my plate it was gone! I kept thinking someone was taking it away before I had a chance to finish it. I went to the kitchen and there were plates there with food still on it, so I decided I would just take one and eat it. (Complete nonsense, and I wasn't lucid, but the dream was very vivid and over a page long in my dream journal).

One guy in the kitchen told me I was being a fool, and I was "barely conscious" (exact words). I took offense since I knew I was sober. (Thought he was accusing me of being drunk...)


After I woke up I wondered.... was that DC lucid? He did stand out more than the others in retrospect, but I wasn't lucid at the time to know it. Or it could just be a common phrase I hear because that's truly how I feel. But still, it's uncanny that the DC used the exact wording as from my other dream. I'll look up the exact dates they happened, and see how far apart they were. I'll edit and add later... The first was Sept. 11, 2013, and this one was Oct. 27, 2013. Over a month apart.
Last edited by HAGART on 10 Dec 2013 06:16, edited 2 times in total.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: Are dream character's conscious?

Postby Summerlander » 09 Dec 2013 01:32

It is true that we can find both zombie-types as well as ostensible sentience in dream characters when we are lucid. And, in ordinary dreams, the majority of the characters are convincingly full of life while we appear to be mentally impaired (although having a normal dream about zombies is also possible).

But I wonder if any of you have noticed the following, which, in my experience, is quite common at the start of a DILD. Do you recall times when you have just discovered that you are dreaming right in the middle of a lively interaction with a dream character/s, and, in that moment of clarity, the character/s just pause (some stare at you) in eerie silence?

If you know what I am talking about, you will also recall the strange sensation that you have somehow stolen their conscious vitality with your lucidity. And then, when you interact with them, you may allow them a small response, knowing that allowing yourself to be mesmerised by signs of sentience and intelligence in them may cost you the gradual loss of your mental faculties. It is worth bearing in mind that the lucid dream state is not a stable one. It fluctuates. Effort is required to make it stable and optimal.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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deschainXIX
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Re: Are dream character's conscious?

Postby deschainXIX » 09 Dec 2013 02:53

It just doesn't make sense to me, if a DC can be conscious... Because, at that moment, they'd become part of us right? Like--literally--a mental Siamese twin... It just doesn't pan out... And why, if they are like us in this sense, does lucidity vary between them? Shouldn't they all be universally enlightened?
It does make sense that they can make us lucid, like we can make them lucid. And sometimes they don't believe us, but I've heard stories where DC's try to convince people and they don't believe them.
But that's interesting, Summerlander, I've never experienced that. But it may be due, in part, to the fact that I've never been in an actual face-to-face conversation with a DC and become lucid. But I'll observe my surrounding DCs next time...

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Well said.


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