Galantamine and Choline (updated: Successful 4th attempt)

Discuss external aids which help you lucid dream including brainwave entrainment, supplements and herbs, lucid dream masks, and more.
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Peter
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Re: Galantamine and Choline (updated: Successful 2nd attempt

Postby Peter » 14 Nov 2013 18:41

Glad it worked. As you state there are few steps in the process and dream entry is the first one with being able to stabilize the dream the n

ext. It seems that you did have a stable dream but not a long one. If you felt the nobs and could get over counters then it was a good stable start the next goal is to get them to last a little longer.

The noises can be startling at first and are real but internally generated and a sign that the dream is close so look for them.
Timing, I will often lose a few seconds and then be lucid with that small jump at the start. I find a balance between REM deprived and that is what 5 HTP is meant to do but I am not sure as I use a sleep recorder at times and there is not a lot of difference between using and not using it but it does have an effect. It may be that it does not deprive REM but sets up for easier generation of that state after a few hours sleep
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Galantamine and Choline (updated: Successful 2nd attempt

Postby lucidinthe sky » 14 Nov 2013 19:15

Peter wrote:Glad it worked. As you state there are few steps in the process and dream entry is the first one with being able to stabilize the dream the n

ext. It seems that you did have a stable dream but not a long one. If you felt the nobs and could get over counters then it was a good stable start the next goal is to get them to last a little longer.


Looking back at what happened, I might have actually caused the instability and shortness of the dream by getting into this "over-excited, do crazy things mode" that I sometimes get into when it looks like the dream is not going to be very good or long. Thinking that time is running out and trying to hurry up before it's gone just ends up being somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy. But then again, the visual quality tells me it wasn't deep. Super good touch though.

Peter wrote: The noises can be startling at first and are real but internally generated and a sign that the dream is close so look for them.


Normally, this quality and volume in HI sounds only come right at bed time for me, so as you say this a good sign for onset. They are quite intense and a bit startling but you can get used to them somewhat.

Peter wrote: Timing, I will often lose a few seconds and then be lucid with that small jump at the start. I find a balance between REM deprived and that is what 5 HTP is meant to do but I am not sure as I use a sleep recorder at times and there is not a lot of difference between using and not using it but it does have an effect. It may be that it does not deprive REM but sets up for easier generation of that state after a few hours sleep


For me, REM suppression will only increase the short-term potential for that particular session, but overall quality is best with a small amount of deprivation. Too much is not good, but the best seems to be a small amount over a few nights. I can usually put an REM cycle or two "in the bank" so to say. That will give me extra REM cycles and a longer potential window for LD. I think normal for me is 5 cycles and the first 3 are generally not usable for LD which leaves only 2.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Peter
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Re: Galantamine and Choline (updated: Successful 2nd attempt

Postby Peter » 14 Nov 2013 20:09

For me, REM suppression will only increase the short-term potential for that particular session


How do you measure you REM cycles?
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Galantamine and Choline (updated: Successful 2nd attempt

Postby lucidinthe sky » 14 Nov 2013 20:56

It's a guess based on averages and the fact that I often wake up right after cycles are completed (usually after the first 2 or 3, then each one after for sure, at least when I'm trying to LD. I can sometimes remember the separate dreams of each cycle, but that's more rare. There are not many cycles in one night's sleep, they are fairly long and their time doesn't vary that much. I generally wake after the first 3 cycles and each cycle after. It makes using supplements easier since my wake-up time is almost always 4-5 hours after going to sleep. If I want to wake up at 2-3 A.M., I go to bed at 10. Go to bed at 11. Wake up at 4-5 A.M. etc.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Peter
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Re: Galantamine and Choline (updated: Successful 2nd attempt

Postby Peter » 14 Nov 2013 21:11

I use a ZEO sleep monitor at times and measure them so get curious when people talk of REM cycles as they are not as linear as you think, at least for me anyway. 5HTP does little to suppress the cycles but may cause them to have less intensity or do something else unrelated but REM gets the credit.
I also get short bursts of REM at times, only minutes and can see then on WILD entry as well. There is a cycle as you say but it can be off at times and I have had REM last a max of just over 2 hours once and that was very long WILD lucid from beginning to end.
I will say that in long lucids I wake exhausted and feel like I have a mild sugar flat or slight hangover.

I think that REM and sleep are dumb words to describe what is occurring and in time both states will be broken into more detailed states.

My first thought is do we fall into REM at the start of WILD, ie do we trigger it by what we are doing of does it need to be ready and waiting for us to connect with. For all our efforts are we passive or aggressive when using WILD techniques
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Galantamine and Choline (updated: Successful 2nd attempt

Postby lucidinthe sky » 14 Nov 2013 22:53

Peter wrote:I use a ZEO sleep monitor at times and measure them so get curious when people talk of REM cycles as they are not as linear as you think, at least for me anyway. 5HTP does little to suppress the cycles but may cause them to have less intensity or do something else unrelated but REM gets the credit.
I also get short bursts of REM at times, only minutes and can see then on WILD entry as well. There is a cycle as you say but it can be off at times and I have had REM last a max of just over 2 hours once and that was very long WILD lucid from beginning to end.


My method of determining REM cycles is just a guess, definitely non-scientific. It is interesting that the brain waves during REM are pretty much identical to waking life as far I know. When I am lucid, it certainly feels just like I am completely awake.

The problem I have with REM suppression is that it's a pretty inexact thing which is what it sounds like you're saying. And also trying to predict the rebound and get that timed right with other supplements, REM cycles, etc. just seems to complicated and imprecise for me. But then I don't have as much experience as you do. Personally, I prefer to reduce the amount of sleep and hence the number of REM cycles on nights before WILD, that way I know for sure there will be a rebound.


Peter wrote: I will say that in long lucids I wake exhausted and feel like I have a mild sugar flat or slight hangover.


I get a hangover only with the supplements, but it's fairly minor.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Peter
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Re: Galantamine and Choline (updated: Successful 2nd attempt

Postby Peter » 15 Nov 2013 00:09

It is interesting that the brain waves during REM are pretty much identical to waking life as far I know. When I am lucid, it certainly feels just like I am completely awake


Same but not surprising as the activity is no less or maybe more intense that waking life.

I prefer to reduce the amount of sleep and hence the number of REM cycles on nights before WILD, that way I know for sure there will be a rebound.


That works well, enough alcohol and a late night will give very vivid dreams as all sleep is condensed into the last part of the night.

All the contradictions, enough sleep to feel rested but lack of sleep to stack up lack of REM and then easy afternoon WILD or OBE,s with REM onset very easy and very quick.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Galantamine and Choline (updated: Successful 2nd attempt

Postby lucidinthe sky » 20 Nov 2013 22:12

One thing I learned with G and C is to how recognize the state with that same high intensity level that's right for WILD entry. When trying the supplements, I got to watch the transition from the lower activity state and compare them. The same state does occur naturally and since then I can identify it when it occurs and then make my WILD attempts at that point. It doesn't guarantee success, but eliminates a lot of attempts which have little or no chance of success.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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lucidinthe sky
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Location: Sacramento, California

Re: Galantamine and Choline (updated: Successful 3rd attempt

Postby lucidinthe sky » 11 Dec 2013 18:06

Tried again for the third time after waking up at 0300. Stayed up until 0400 then took 4mg of G, 700 of C. Got the ringing in the ear after about an hour, but the full effects took almost 2 hours.

This time was a very interesting and different experience from any lucid dream so far. I had 2 short lucid dreams which I just slipped into completely effortlessly. It was almost like my thoughts just morphed right into the dreams. During the next hour approximately, all my dreams were lucid and just went in and out of them, some were just little bits and pieces. Very cool mental state, kind of a hybrid between full awake and full dream. Really enjoyed the easy transition and it still felt like I was totally awake, so much so that I was worrying that my body must be doing things in the bed. It was really unusual to be so close to being awake yet the dreams had good visuals, sounds etc. although I was also very aware that the dream state was really fragile and could wake up easily.

Had two distinct lucid dreams. The first dream took me into some kind of large classroom with a stage down below. A guy was projecting things on a screen at the stage level. I turned to guy on my left side, "Excuse me, but I'm new here. What is the class about?" He just ignored me, despite my efforts. Turned to the guy on the other side. He complained about how terrible the housing was and told me it was some new kind of video game. The guy at the screen was moving around a paddle-like control and it was interacting with screen and also showing itself on the display. It was some kind of really complicated technology that didn't make sense. We laughed about not being interested. Then he starting trying to do something with one of my front teeth, pushing really hard on it which I could feel. I complained about the pain. "Sorry, I just went ahead and started working on your tooth." Told him it felt like he was breaking it. "No I'm not a breaker." He says.

Just flowed out of that dream and back to being awake, then back into another dream where I was walking with a young lady who claimed she was my daughter, but I didn't recognize her. She took my hand and we walked along through stone covered streets in an old city. She asked me if I could help her find some kind of mind-altering substance. She didn't know the exact name, but it was referred to as super tomatoes or high energy tomatoes or something like that. Then I said, "I also have something I want to tell you about. I'm actually trying it now, it's called Galantamine and Choline and it's how I got here with you" Woke up before we could go any further but it was interesting to tell a DC about G and C.

It was really an interesting experience because the lucid dreams were so close to just thoughts and so easy to move into.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Peter
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Re: Galantamine and Choline (updated: Successful 3rd attempt

Postby Peter » 11 Dec 2013 19:21

The transitions are nice when they smooth out and the suddenness of just being there if it is a WILD is stunning.

I like the level of awareness that comes with using G & C combinations and the dreams become another life or another place with the level of interaction.


Your control must be good as you still need a reasonable level of ability to extend the dreams and to come in and out with intent.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born


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