The Awareness Behind The Dream

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Summerlander
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The Awareness Behind The Dream

Postby Summerlander » 12 Dec 2013 18:10

Hi! I was wondering what you guys think about the concept of an awareness behind the dream as conveyed by Robert Waggoner. Do you believe that there is an awareness behind that dream which is aware of the lucid dreamer and this one can communicate with it or do you think this is an idea/belief that Waggoner inadvertently created and was caught up in.

Feel free to post your theories about the subconscious, consciousness, and dreaming itself. Make this an interesting discussion with personal observations, philosophy, science, and even excerpts from your dream journals.

Here's the interview with Robert Waggoner:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf0g1YZa8co

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I'll put the kettle on! :D
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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torakrubik
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Re: The Awareness Behind The Dream

Postby torakrubik » 16 Dec 2013 00:18

I don't think that there is an individual awareness, per se, rather an interconnectedness or 'dream network'. I speculate that this is generated and sustained entirely mentally, by all things that dream. This, for me, explains the instances when I have asked the dream directly for something, as on every single occasion I have had a response of some kind. I believe that it is this dream network that distorts and transfers ideas and thoughts between dreaming things to produce these responses. I'm afraid I have no science to back this as of course it is just a hypothesis and one that I am continually improving upon.

Having read Waggoner's Gateway To The Inner Self, I can appreciate his experiences with this awareness, and it just so happens I have interpreted my experiences differently. Each to his own, until science proves something of course :D
Dreaming is my drug

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Summerlander
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Re: The Awareness Behind The Dream

Postby Summerlander » 16 Dec 2013 01:45

I pretty much agree with your postulated interconnectedness. In fact I like LaBerge's observations in his literature - it's more in tandem with my experience. Nevertheless, Waggoner provides food for thought.

What do you think about multiple personalities?

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Peter
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Re: The Awareness Behind The Dream

Postby Peter » 16 Dec 2013 09:48

I can ask for and get deeper experiences by asking withing the dream so the action is there and for me cant be denied. What I currently think is that we are directly communicating with another part of our mind or ourselves and we get the answers in a visual way. I feel a lot of the dream scenes and interactions are a visual language with us interaction as part of that.

What do you think about multiple personalities?


I suspect that we dont have multiple personalities but we are multiples in some way and have said before that what we think of as ourselves might not be the dominant one but the one that we are currently having the strongest contact with. Its a bit of a head spin to think that the strong dominant personality we assume is us is a thin veneer on strings that simply serves a purpose
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Summerlander
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Re: The Awareness Behind The Dream

Postby Summerlander » 16 Dec 2013 11:37

I see what you mean. That would make the lucid dreaming self the closest dreaming model to the waking self, wouldn't it? In essence, we are what we think we are! So who do you think you are, buster? :-D

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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torakrubik
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Re: The Awareness Behind The Dream

Postby torakrubik » 17 Dec 2013 00:11

It's certainly possible that multiple personalities and other related disorders may stem from over-active dream elements, perhaps consistent DCs or something like that. It appears to be 'safe' to converse with them in a dream though - there are no documented cases of multiple personality disorders developing from lucid dreaming.
Dreaming is my drug

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Peter
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Re: The Awareness Behind The Dream

Postby Peter » 17 Dec 2013 00:43

I wonder if I was clear. I think we ARE made of multiple parts of awareness and conversing in the dreamspace at the level of lucid dreaming is a visual language where all thoughts have life and supporting thoughts or possible thoughts come to life. Intuitions spring into life and become active.

We create the inner world with our aware and non-aware thoughts. The same as in waking life, if you want it or believe it, both good and bad it has a greater chance of happening.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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HAGART
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Re: The Awareness Behind The Dream

Postby HAGART » 17 Dec 2013 04:50

I started to seek the awareness behind the dream too after watching an interview with Robert Waggoner. I was in a dream and became lucid in a kitchen of a house I use to live in. Once I became lucid, all others disappeared and I called out to the dream, "OK, I figured it out! You can come out now!" Nobody showed up. I was taking it too literally and thought there might be an entity behind it all and there is someone responsible for creating the dream. A dream guide if you will.

Sometimes I have even looked up to the sky and called out as if speaking to a God in the dream, someone who is in more control than me, but that too just falls upon deaf ears. But a strong desire and intent seems to have far more power in a lucid dream, than mere words to an invisible (possibly non-existent awareness behind the dream). If I ask for something in a lucid dream and don't truly desire it, it won't work. When it does, I must have had a strong intent. So words are just a tool, (something I am use to in waking life), but not necessary in a dream. It's my own desires that drive the dream, and some of them are subconscious and therefore new to 'me' in the dream and surprising. (I put 'me' in quotes because the subconscious is also half of me too, but it doesn't have a point of view in a dream. I use my sense of self as a point of reference in a dream when in actuality I am also all the dream characters and the inanimate objects in the dream too. Who am I, but just a collection of thoughts, so EVERYTHING in a lucid dream is... me in its entirety and my sense of self is only one small aspect of my larger consciousness as a whole.) :o

Anyway, I haven't met, or interacted with an awareness behind the dream, but perhaps it is a metaphor and I've been taking it too literally.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

TillyPink
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Re: The Awareness Behind The Dream

Postby TillyPink » 18 Dec 2013 00:07

What a great question Summerlander and some really interesting responses. I watched the interview and enjoyed listening to Waggoner's experiences. The idea of another consciousness behind the dream is compelling but I'm still not quite sure what his own interpretation is of that....

I was reminded of the way my son dreams. He isn't really into exploring lucid dreaming, but has had a handful. All of his dreams are observatory. He watches his dreams as if he is watching a movie (which i know is not too unusual) So in this sense, he is the consciousness behind his dream. I asked him today if he has a sense of self while he watches his dreams. He recalled his last where he was watching 2 warriors climb a tower. The first one was helping the other up the tower, then, when they both reached the top, the one who had been helping the first, pushed him down from the tower. He said that he isn't aware of having a body, or being an actual person, but he feels like he can pass judgement (he felt shocked when the warrior was pushed down for eg)

I don't think the consciousness behind the dream is like the true self...or the 'god self', but this voice that Waggoner speaks of that came from above and not from the mouth of one of his DC's is the voice that is always in play, just expressed through the different DC's, and at that moment, it became the generic observer, the pure imaginative voice without the expression of an imaginative body. Although, an imaginative body appeared thereafter, a dot in his palm.

Multiple personality is a disorder, but there's the postmodern concept that we do not have a true self, we are made up of many selves. These come into play in conscious and unconscious states. But the mind drives them all. I don't think there is something separate behind or that drives the dream, but consciousness is collective (Jung stuff) -or the web of consciousness (more shamanic, perhaps ancestral stuff). Our multi-fascited selves are always created in relation to the other. So therefore, the other cannot be absent from dream. Mind is collective. Nothing is separate. A sense of something else behind your thoughts or dreams may then prevail?

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HAGART
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Re: The Awareness Behind The Dream

Postby HAGART » 18 Dec 2013 00:50

I feel like we all talk about the same thing, but with different definitions and cultural backgrounds. It all depends on what we think we know and what we expect. Jung vs. Shamanism may be talking about he exact same thing, but with different words.

TillyPink wrote:He watches his dreams as if he is watching a movie (which i know is not too unusual) So in this sense, he is the consciousness behind his dream.


This got me thinking. I mentioned that my lucid dreams are always from the perspective of 'me', ego sense of self identity. But actually they aren't always like that, and I stand corrected. I too get third person dreams that are lucid all the time too. They don't last as long and aren't as memorable as being first person in an adventure.

Perhaps that is me being disassociated from 'self', and viewing it from a more subconscious perspective. I always wondered how the subconscious would view a dream, and perhaps that is it. NO sense of self, and no sense of 'self preservation' in a dream. It's all happening to 'someone else"....
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.


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