If people only knew what they are missing

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: If people only knew what they are missing

Postby lucidinthe sky » 08 Jan 2012 01:44

Even Albert Einstein once said, "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."I don't like to think about it too much and be blissfully unaware. Sometimes it feels like someone is pulling the wool over my eyes, but it is some comfortable wool!


Yes, I agree. I think we all are having the wool pulled over are eyes and I believe that it's part of the deal. We like it.


Reality can only be perceived by things that can perceive it, and it is subjective. I'm sure an ant, sees this universe much different than I do. Even Albert Einstein once said, "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."


Yes, I think your right. We don't tend to think of reality as being subjective, but it is and is a function of the observer.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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HAGART
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Re: If people only knew what they are missing

Postby HAGART » 08 Jan 2012 02:46

I'm glad you agree. Philosophers have been questioning reality for centuries before me.

However, I have a technical question. How do you quote a previous excerpt from someone, as you did, and have it appear in the white rectangle thingy. :?:
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: If people only knew what they are missing

Postby lucidinthe sky » 08 Jan 2012 03:26

You probably know why Einstein said that "reality is just an illusion" but in case someone is wondering, Einstein is refering to how at the quantum level, the level of atomic particles, things don't work the same way as what we see at our level. I don't know much about this, but I'm trying to learn and it's fascinating. One of my favorite experiments is the double slit experiment that shows that light is a particle, or a wave. Whichever way you measure it, it conforms to the measurement which is really also the expectation of the observer.

About the quote: highlight the text and then click on the quote button on the right side. I had a problem on the last one though: it said "Peter said", but it was your quote. Could be a bug in the reality software and on that thought, I will do an RC.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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HAGART
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Re: If people only knew what they are missing

Postby HAGART » 08 Jan 2012 04:03

Yea! Physics has hit a brick wall. They can't move forward until they incorporate perception into the equation! One could write a whole book about it, but that's it in a nut-shell-sentence. Physics and perception are somehow intertwined. I haven't even started to talk about fractals, and the size of consciousness.... thats for another topic.

Anyway, I tried to find the "quote on the right side" and I think I just found it. It's on the actual reply. I will now test.....
lucidinthe sky wrote:quantum level


Ok thank-you. I think that worked, and I will use it in the future.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: If people only knew what they are missing

Postby lucidinthe sky » 08 Jan 2012 18:39

I'm not a physcist, just trying to make sense of it. My personal opinion is that the brick wall that physics has hit is called consciousness. Consciousness is subjective and science is supposed to be objective (whatever that means). Consciousness can't be measured in a scientific way like other things can be so it's not going to be part of any universal theory. Physicists are aware that the observer has a role in determining outcomes, but no one can explain why.

I think the closest plausible explanation is the "many worlds interpretation" as it is called. The majoity of the world physicists now subscribe to this idea. It basically says that every outcome of every possible action exists in a separate universe and there are an inifinite number of these universes. So all of these universes can exist independantly of any observer. I can't imagine a way to prove this.

What I think is there is only one universe which is made of every possible outcome and undefined until the conscious entity observes it and brings it into existence. Reminds me of lucid dreams.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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HAGART
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Re: If people only knew what they are missing

Postby HAGART » 08 Jan 2012 19:17

lucidinthe sky wrote:undefined until the conscious entity observes it and brings it into existence. Reminds me of lucid dreams.


Yea, I had a lucid dream recently, in which I was cutting down trees, by waving my hand through the air. It was extremely vivid, and real, and from what I've been hearing was probably a WILD.

So I was cutting trees and watching them fall. Then i saw an absolutely huge tree trunk. I couldn't see the top. It was mammoth. I sliced it and the trunk fell over, but it was just a trunk. Where was the top? The only part that fell was the part I could see. I looked up, and saw the rest of this huge tree just hovering. It was like it didn't exist until I observed it.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: If people only knew what they are missing

Postby lucidinthe sky » 08 Jan 2012 19:30

HAGART wrote:
lucidinthe sky wrote:undefined until the conscious entity observes it and brings it into existence. Reminds me of lucid dreams.


Yea, I had a lucid dream recently, in which I was cutting down trees, by waving my hand through the air. It was extremely vivid, and real, and from what I've been hearing was probably a WILD.

So I was cutting trees and watching them fall. Then i saw an absolutely huge tree trunk. I couldn't see the top. It was mammoth. I sliced it and the trunk fell over, but it was just a trunk. Where was the top? The only part that fell was the part I could see. I looked up, and saw the rest of this huge tree just hovering. It was like it didn't exist until I observed it.


Excellent observation. Lucid dreams have helped me to come this conclusion: we are making everything.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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houseofleaves
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Re: If people only knew what they are missing

Postby houseofleaves » 09 Jan 2012 04:17

I think the closest plausible explanation is the "many worlds interpretation" as it is called. The majoity of the world physicists now subscribe to this idea. It basically says that every outcome of every possible action exists in a separate universe and there are an inifinite number of these universes. So all of these universes can exist independantly of any observer. I can't imagine a way to prove this.


This theory absolutely fascinates me. I remember watching something about Schrödinger's cat and being completely blown away.

Perhaps our waking 'reality' only feels real, because that awareness, or lucidity, that we tend to lose in sleep, is always turned on when we are awake. So whenever you are lucid, whether it be in sleep or awake, is what we call 'real'. However, we can become unlucid in reality. If you get really drunk or do other drugs, you can wake up the next day and not fully remember what you did in 'reality' and it seems like a dream. So it can go both ways.


I really love this observation. Reality is definitely ONLY what we perceive. The only reason our "waking reality" is assumed to be real and dreaming is not is because of how much time we spend being aware of it. If we were able to spend as much time dreaming lucidly as we spend being "awake," we would have very different views on what reality truly is, or what can be defined as real. Just like taking psychedelics, can you say one way or another what you're perceiving is or isn't real?
"The madman is a waking dreamer." -Immanuel Kant

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: If people only knew what they are missing

Postby lucidinthe sky » 09 Jan 2012 07:40

houseofleaves wrote:This theory absolutely fascinates me. I remember watching something about Schrödinger's cat and being completely blown away.


Yes, it blows away what is called the Copenhagen interpretation. Stephen Hawking believes in many worlds and once said, "Whenever I hear Schrödinger's Cat I reach for my revolver!" Copenhagen suggest that the cat is both dead and alive until you open the box and then this mysterious thing happens called "collapse of the wavefront" which I think roughly translated means: WTF? Many Worlds says that the cat is dead in one universe, but alive in the other. The observer is in one of the two universes, but has no effect on the outcome. I think that's closer to the truth, but still does not take into account the role of the conscious observer which they must leave out.

My favorite "thought experiment" is the one called quantum immortality or quantum suicide depending on which universe you're in. For those who don't know: A person sits down in front of a gun which measures the spin of a particle which has exactly the same probability of being in one of two states. If the spin is "up" the gun fires and the person is dead. If it's "down" then the gun goes "click" but doesn't fire. Many Worlds says that the universe divides in 2 for each event, one where the gun fires and one where it clicks. But the person who is sitting in front of the gun can only be aware in the world where they are still alive so they hear "click, click, click, click..." for ever. If this is true, physicists have proven that life is eternal.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus


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