Quantum Mechanical Dream World

For those who wish to discuss the purely scientific aspects of sleep and dreams, including new research and future technologies.
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Summerlander
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Quantum Mechanical Dream World

Postby Summerlander » 17 Jan 2014 19:19

I don't know if you guys have heard...

Recently, it was discovered that neurons support quantum vibrations in microtubules which corroborate Sir Roger Penrose's view that brain waves, as well as consciousness, derive from them:

http://esciencenews.com/articles/2014/01/16/discovery.quantum.vibrations.microtubules.corroborates.theory.consciousness

It is said that the rules of the quantum realm are different. It enables particle-wave duality, superpositions, entanglement, uncertainty until something is measured, the observer may lower the entropy of the quantum state of affairs etc. etc. The quantum world is weird and human logic can go straight out of the window... (sound familiar with ordinary dreams?)

Now recall the times when you were lucid dreaming and you noticed how prone to instability that mental world was. How lettering in the dream world was prone to rapid change. How sometimes you thought you read something and the more you inspected it, the more the illusion was shattered. How sensorial stimulation helped to bring about a degree of certainty, sense, and control. How the dream character became more alive as your lucidity dwindled. How you became less "yourself" and waking life memories dissipated as you fell into a non-lucid dream state and embraced the absurd as if it made sense...

Is the dream world, and the so-called subconscious content, nothing more than (largely visual) expressions of quantum data of various potentials in our brains? Is the random array of quantum vibrations in the cerebral system responsible for memory and a mishmash of concepts that take expression in dreams (which can either be logical or illogical)? Is the dream world, in a sense, a reflection of the boundary between the quantum and the classical? Do we see decoherence (the reduction of physical possibilities into one outcome), or the process of it, taking place in lucid dreams when we use techniques to stabilise them? Is consciousness the expression of that boundary?

Feel free to post what you think on the matter...(puts kettle on) 8-)

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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torakrubik
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Re: Quantum Mechanical Dream World

Postby torakrubik » 18 Jan 2014 01:57

Wow, I've never considered anything like that before! Unfortunately the link doesn't work for me, but I assume the premise of your argument is drawing parallels with something similar to the collapsing of wave-functions in determining electrons' positions. You're saying we experience that process in our dreams, that we use stabilising techniques to force one outcome of the dream? So up until that point, multiple dream events run simultaneously and this may cause the illogical madness we experience in our dreams? Apologies if I've misinterpreted, that's what I'm gleaning from this :)
Dreaming is my drug

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Summerlander
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Re: Quantum Mechanical Dream World

Postby Summerlander » 19 Jan 2014 01:25

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. But in ordinary dreams we don't necessarily get to pick, it has been picked for us and the cerebral reverberations have been pre-arranged from environmental interaction prior to bedtime. In lucid dreams, the illusion of choice is, of course, stronger and the potentials for manifestation seem to suit the organism's conscious wishes. Perhaps in ordinary dreams we are closer to the proto-conscious state emergent from the quantum realm than in lucid dreams. Gamma frequency (40 Hz) may be required for lucid dreaming and it may be that this is one of the necessarily physical aspects for consciousness to emerge.

So, dreaming is largely unconstrained by sensory input, and consciousness in lucid dreams is somewhat cocooned and shielded from the external, and rigid, physical world. This may enabled us to experience other possibilities for real events, they are not yet real and may never be but are still explored by reality on a quantum level. The dream state magnifies them, somewhat, as other regions of the brain, like visual and auditory mechanisms, get to work and interpret what goes on within.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Summerlander
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Re: Quantum Mechanical Dream World

Postby Summerlander » 19 Jan 2014 01:33

Or, if you discard Copenhagen's view and adopt the many-worlds interpretation, we may even be glimpsing already existent worlds, in parallel universes, but their improbability in this frequency is so high that what we get is vague. By the time we stabilise the environment in a lucid dream, all we see is an illusion, an interpretation of a possible world by our brain,

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

Magal
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Re: Quantum Mechanical Dream World

Postby Magal » 16 Feb 2014 01:32

Fascinating subject! May I recommend Massimo Teodorani's book "Entanglement" because it's also talking about the quantum mechanics supposedly going on in those microtubules.

It could have so many implications it boggles my mind.

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Summerlander
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Re: Quantum Mechanical Dream World

Postby Summerlander » 16 Feb 2014 02:49

Thanks for the recommendation. I'm glad you guys take an interest. :-)

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

YinyangDK
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Re: Quantum Mechanical Dream World

Postby YinyangDK » 31 Jul 2014 13:30

Is consciousness the expression of that boundary?
Yes I would say to an extend. Those micro-tubes might be a gateway for some of the collected energy to be transformed into to the individual consciousness. :idea:

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Summerlander
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Re: Quantum Mechanical Dream World

Postby Summerlander » 31 Jul 2014 13:53

With a bit more scientific exploration on the mechanisms behind it, we might be led to a better comprehension of how the objective forms the subjective. ;)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Peter
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Re: Quantum Mechanical Dream World

Postby Peter » 01 Aug 2014 07:51

So, dreaming is largely unconstrained by sensory input, and consciousness in lucid dreams is somewhat cocooned and shielded from the external, and rigid, physical world


I tend to think that its the memory of sensory impute broken into its basic elements that supplies the building blocks of our dreams and the semi organized structure of some elements of the lucid state.

If you see and object like a leaf, it has no color and the light or photons that strike the leaf have no color just differ ant lengths so they go in get absorbed and excite the electrons and move then give off energy or photons at a certain length.
We receive this and color does not yet exist and then this information may be busted into a lot of smaller components or shuffled like data packets over the net until its reassembled as a image with color.

This is the start of our reality the virtual world that we think of as the real world.

This mass of information in basic form could be the apparently random building blocks of the dream scape and would account for the wonderful mix and variety that we get at times.

Someone will fix up my post as its not 100% accurate but close enough to give the idea

I have listened to entanglement and its interesting
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Summerlander
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Re: Quantum Mechanical Dream World

Postby Summerlander » 01 Aug 2014 20:17

I understood your post and I think it is definitely more plausible, and feasible, than dreams being glimpses of parallels worlds, or distorted versions of other universes. Dreams may coincide with existent worlds but it is more likely that, as you stated, they are largely based on memory.

Indeed colour does not exist but in our minds as the product of cerebral codes that distinguish between different wavelengths of light. What we see is a mere translation (or interpretation) of the external world, and, in dreams, those same mechanisms are at work.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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