Lucid Dreaming/Astral Projection - Scared and stuck!

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Demonica
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Lucid Dreaming/Astral Projection - Scared and stuck!

Postby Demonica » 28 Feb 2014 00:19

Hello all!

I found your forums when googling 'astral projection'. Please bear with me if I get the lingo wrong or I've posted in the wrong place. I'll try my best to keep this short but I've tried explaining my recent experiences to friends and family and sound like a crazy woman so I'm hoping some kind internet folk out there may understand or be able to help.

Many years ago I read about lucid dreams and astral projection (I think they were books by Robert Bruce and Robert Monroe, whatever popped up on Amazon). I tried techniques for a while out of curiousity to see if it was all real or hogwash and got nowhere. I have no religious/spiritual beliefs but remain open minded and subscribe to the opinion that science is yet to explain everything and 'I'll find out if there's something else to it all once I pop my clogs'.

A few months ago I began having the occasional 'lucid' dream. That's what I've called it, but may be wrong. They took place in my home and everything felt *real*. Unlike my usual dreams I could hear noises clearly, my stairs creaked as they would if I were physically on them, colours were bright and clear like in real life. I could vaguely choose my actions (default thing was to start flying around). At times I was simultaneously aware of both being by my front door as dream-me AND aware of physical-me lying in bed and starting to get a numb hand. It was bizarre, almost unexplainable to have my consciousness split.

I then started to feel I was straddling lucid dreams and astral projection (I'm unsure if the two are considered the same or not). I'll leave a lot of experiences out for brevity but I'm currently having exactly the same experience almost every night.

I'll go to bed (usually extremely tired after pottering around the net on my laptop) then the following will happen in about the space of twenty-thirty minutes. I drop off to sleep then almost immediately I'll wake again - not moving, just alert. I'll hear a rushing in my ears, almost so loud it hurts and a very cold, very strong wind - as if it's real, like a hurricane in my bedroom. After that, or during it, my whole body feels strange, like strong pins and needles tingling and different things will happen. Sometimes I hear lots of voices or 'feel' presences (they are mostly negative - hence 'scared'). I'll try to counter this fear with silly things like calling out for relatives who have died, thinking about a living loved-one and tonight, for some reason, I loudly mentally sang/thought the song Madness - 'It Must Be Love' (I have no idea why! I'm not a big fan of them but must have been the first upbeat song to enter my head). Often it feels like half of my 'astral' body has come loose and my legs feel as though they're floating but my upper half is 'stuck' fast. Sometimes I've spun around incredibly fast while inside my body. Tonight I had the 'loose legs' thing but then it felt as though something was pulling my legs directly up. Not a physical sensation, like a vacuum cleaner sucking them. I got scared again and resorted to my usual way of waking myself up - to focus on wiggling my fingers and toes until I'm alert. Earlier in the week when I got scared and mentally asked my dead relatives to surround me, I floated and rotated very briefly in the warmest, strangest feeling and felt so comforted and happy, I think I even laughed (in the 'dream', not the 'real' world). That's one of the only positive experiences I've had aside from 'flying is really cool'.

I've had 'false awakenings' before when everything has seemed real and I think I'm awake but when I try to look at my phone or flick on the bedside light, nothing happens - blackness. The first time I experienced that I thought it was a power cut so walked over to the TV to see if it would turn on. It took a while to realise I wasn't actually awake, it felt just like real life, not a dream!

Once awake properly I feel tingly all over and my ears can have a very dull ache from the wind noise.

I think I'm done now, I promise that was the short version!

I guess my questions would be:-

Does anyone else experience any of this or am I going loopy/have a health problem and should see a doctor?
Is any of this considered lucid dreaming or astral projection?
Are there techniques to not get half stuck in my body?
How can I overcome this fear? I've experienced genuine terror at times during these episodes, enough to want all this to stop. I totally understand why some believe in evil spirits etc now. I'm unsure if there's something in that or if it's my mind going doolally!

If anyone is able to help with any of this then I would appreciate it massively. Thank you so much for taking the time to read this. I'm going to try sleeping again now (I'm in the UK so it's getting late) and would like to drop off normally, it's beginning to get exhausting having these experiences every night!

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Summerlander
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Re: Lucid Dreaming/Astral Projection - Scared and stuck!

Postby Summerlander » 28 Feb 2014 02:07

You're not doolally. You just have a propensity for reaching phase states of the brain which combine waking consciousness and dreaming. You are basically awake in the dream world and your fears are manifesting many things from imagination and possibly subconsciously fueled by the tripe you've been exposed to from so-called experts such as Robert Bruce with his "negs" crap.

You have also been experiencing vibrations, sleep paralysis, tactile and auditory hallucinations. The fear is hard to surmount because it is rooted in the primordial part of your brain, a mechanism of instinct which involves the amygdala (linked to fight-or-flight sensations) which, once active, triggers the physiological release of adrenaline. Possible symptoms are sweating, change in bodily temperature and palpitations. This is all normal.

The best you can do to overcome fear is to give your brain time. The fear is irrational and all you can do is calm down and try to focus on good things - like seeing loved ones who passed away!

Just remember: You cannot be harmed in your own mental world. Have fun doing the impossible. Know that you are only dreaming. Practice lucid dreaming and enjoy your own fantasies.

Science may not have all the answers but it is doing a good job at improving our quality of living and it is a good tool to explore reality logically and reasonably. It keep discovering things about the natural world on a daily basis and has in fact succeeded in dispelling many myths, silly superstitions, and even reinforced the implausibility of the supernatural. Astral projection is merely a belief-cenyric term. There is as much evidence for AP as there is for gnomes in my backgarden: zilch!

People who say they astral project are not really visiting astral realms. They merely reach the phase state of the mind responsible for numinous experiences such as grand illusions of being "out of body" and lucid dreaming. That's all it is.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Summerlander
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Re: Lucid Dreaming/Astral Projection - Scared and stuck!

Postby Summerlander » 28 Feb 2014 02:11

*correction: belief-centric

Btw, I'm in the UK, too! Welcome to the forum! ;-)

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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HAGART
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Re: Lucid Dreaming/Astral Projection - Scared and stuck!

Postby HAGART » 28 Feb 2014 02:59

Your post is a straight forward, honest interpretation of the 'Madness' that can happen to us. (Sorry, had to use the band as a pun....)

Although I haven't experienced exactly what you did, and I doubt others can say they know what I experienced, it is all in the same boat. The same category. The "Phase State" some dub it, and I can relate. (Call it what you will. A rose by any other name.....)

For some reason, lucid dreamers get these weird, "in between periods", sensing your perceived "dream body" and corporeal body at the same time, which can be bewildering when you don't know who to talk to about it. I've been down that road, and became more acquainted with it in time. They lead to great lucid dreams if you remain calm and control it!

No need to see a doctor. Unless you take me too, because I'm the same way as you. :? :lol:
(BUT Knowledge is power, and I remember my roots, and how I use to be, 2 years ago when I first joined this site. I thought I was going mad too, and needed to tell my crazy stories....)

Welcome to the forum. You found the right place. 8-)
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: Lucid Dreaming/Astral Projection - Scared and stuck!

Postby Summerlander » 28 Feb 2014 03:41

Yep. If Demonica needs a doctor we need one too. And this is defo the right place to learn. B-)

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

Demonica
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Re: Lucid Dreaming/Astral Projection - Scared and stuck!

Postby Demonica » 28 Feb 2014 09:14

Good morning!

A brief reply as I'm off to work soon but wanted to thank you for your responses. I'm glad I don't need to book an appointment with the doctor! When explaining it to others I have said how the sensible part of me knows it's "the brain doing crazy things I simply haven't knowingly experienced before" however, I can see how others truly believe it means we have a soul and that there's an afterlife or other planes etc because the feeling is so bizarre. The feeling of half my body floating around is still rather disconcerting! I do wish my brain would conjure up rainbows and puppies (and perhaps Alexander Skarsgard) instead of 'demons' and creepy voices too.

So, where others may refer to OOBEs and astral projection, most here refer to it all as lucid dreaming?

I shall have a nosey through more posts after work. Thanks again for the replies, I'm feeling less crazy now ;)

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Summerlander
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Re: Lucid Dreaming/Astral Projection - Scared and stuck!

Postby Summerlander » 28 Feb 2014 18:50

Yeah. That's it. And to those people who look at you funny, tell them that lucid dreaming is real and scientifically established as a fact. 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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taniaaust1
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Re: Lucid Dreaming/Astral Projection - Scared and stuck!

Postby taniaaust1 » 14 Mar 2014 07:07

Hi there. yes most at this LD site consider AP and OBE to be exactly the same thing.

From my own experiences with both AP and LD and also what many occultists believe, I dont believe that is so and hence believe that there are three different other states with can be with with this.
1/ Astrally projected in ones "astral body" and experiencing from that.

2/ Experiencing ones "mental body" which is where dreams come from and like a state where the emotions and thoughts are manifesting.

3/ Both things things coming into play at one, so experiencing both. (just like people can experience the physical world and "daydreaming" and getting weird thoughts due to this and some get images, it is also possible to be astrally projected experiencing the astral and day dreaming a bit too one could say..so then you are experiencing both astral and dream world mixing some. It sounds like you had that happening when you had your experience where you werent really being your normal rational self and started singing that song while at the same time other stuff you had there was more so AP stuff.

Vibrations people feel, happen when their energy bodies (astral body, mental body, physical body etc) and the consciousness gets out of sych one could stay eg when changing from awareness form one frequency to another (each of these bodies carries a different frequency.. which your conscious tunes into one could say so you experience from that frequency).


Im sure these are different things as not only have I myself experienced them being different things eg I had astral experiences which were able to be vertified eg experienced the astral of the physical plane but also psychics who have very good psychic sight can actually see what goes on with these bodies eg when you think anything... an advance psychic will be able to see the images in your auric field.. this is a creation of the mental body. If you are asleep.. your very dreams can be seen in your auric field.

Interestingly..when you are asleep and having it happen.. people tend to be astral too (usually standing or floating somewhere near their physical body) this can be seen too. They are unaware thou of their astral body so it is like a zombie there.. their astral to look at is asleep while their dream is manfesting in the auric field (I havent seen that myself but know from psychic friends and teachers Ive had in the past who I now I can trust). I think the images from what I remember appear around the persons head.

Someone who is awarely astral though.. will be doing things in their astral body, they will move away from their physical body and go elsewhere. They can also interact with the astral plane of the physical world and find things out about this physical world throu that. Someone in an occultic group I used to go to once showed me a photo they'd taken of a couple of astral projectors who posed in their astral forms so they could take their photos (their astral forms were really standing there in the photo). You could check up on a lover to see if they were up to mischief or whatever.. check real stuff.

Anyway.. there is many different ways to show to yourself if you are able to AP that AP isnt in fact LD and due to my own experience there, I can quite surely myself say they are not the same thing (I once managed to move a physical object witnessed by others while I was astral, Ive also once seen a birthday gift to me which I wasnt supposed to see while astral.... these things can not be done by LD).

Some cause they havent experience a pure AP yet without dreaming coming into it too.. doubt that these are separate things (thou they are interlinked). Im sure thou if they experienced a AP without LD interference or overlap.. they would soon be able to prove that it is possible to interact with our physical world with the astral eg just like the others photo he'd taken of 2 AP people posing for a photo for themselves.

Quite likely people get used to entering one of these states be it AP or OBE eg if someone is an experienced in LD and used to allowing their mind to drift to create a LD.. how does one stop doing this? (its hard) and then may find it hard to experience the other... People get used to shifting into certain states of consciousness..and that is all these things are. Even to experience the physical world.. you've brought your consciousness here and tuned into this.

Ive probably messed my AP stuff up by getting into LD as the state of dreaming is very different.. eg to bring in dreaming one needs to let ones mind flow and go.. For AP though, I find it takes a different focus, if certainly does not want to let ones mind go (or you start dreaming) but rather want to keep a very strong conscious focus the whole time with a clear head (holding a clear minded focus on getting out eg ROPE technique.. thou i dare say I hate that technique as that one never works for me..but a clear focus staying aware of your body and focusing on any astral motion can help stop the mind from drifting and hence help stop dreaming. So in a way its very different.. (one best to keep a very active mind.. the other to let the mind drift.. both states thou require the same kind of "body" relaxation).

Thou Summertown knocks Robert Bruce's stuff.. I personally believe in it.. why? Cause I had nearly precisely the same kinds of weirder then "weird" experiences Robert Bruce describes with AP before I ever read any of his stuff or anything like it. We've both seen the same things.. others who have APed even from children and havent had ideas put into their heads also have experienced the same (thou of cause not all do). I know some of that stuff seems very weird to ones who havent experienced it.

The well known occultist Dion Fortune is another who has had weird astral experiences practically identical to some of mine (once again I havent read anything on stuff like that before I myself had the experiences). Shamans and Yogis experience similar too eg astral parasites. (they are buggy things at various vibrations which one can experience as one is shifting throu the frequencies.. different things cause different kinds of buggy things. Think of the physical earth wildlife... it has its own wildlife we can expect to see here.. other frequenies have their stuff too (you may not know about this in advance but find yourself in that frequency and you may expereince exactly the same thing which another did when they were experiencing or tuning into that frequency).

Psychics can sometimes see these when they are normally awake and aware eg smoking will give people a certain type of bug astral parasite thing which exists at a certain frequency (I dont know if its something drawn to say someone smoking or that is how the energy from doing smoking manifests..but a nest of a specific kind of buggy thing can appear in the astral of the smoker). Anyway..there is certain manifestations at certain vibrations and some dont even have to be asleep to see these (my ability there isnt good. Ive only seen astral parasites with my physical eyes, once or twice).

There is real other worlds out there at other frequencies. I used to work at times at psychic expo and as it was quicker/easier when doing auric cleaning on people to work together with a couple of other healers on someone (that way we also didnt take up much space.. the cost of the stalls were expensive and not big).. if one of us went to the loo.. it was quite easy when coming back to quickly scan the energy body of the client and be able to feel what had been worked on in our absence (so we didnt even need to ask one another or even have to follow a set order of things if we didnt want) If someone was watching us very closer, they would of been confused and wondering how we knew what the other ones had done in our absence.

Anyway.. more then one person can tune into a frequency at a time and work together on that frequency/vibration.. plane of awarenesses.
...

Hey dont be scared. LDs are very unlikely to ever cause anyone problems and APs unlikely to cause any horrible experiences either unless you go and do very stupid things like Ive done in past.

eg I once tried to AP into the house of the head of a wiccian coven who has a teacher of mine at that time... without asking. Very bad mistake. I was new at things and had no knowledge of wards and he had his house warded. This resulted in an extremely scary experience for me as his ward (his protection) got a hold of me. (i didnt understand why this scary thing had happened to me when I tried to visit him till he after explained it to me). I know now what I did was very rude and wrong to do. I wouldnt just walk into his house in real life without an invite..yet I tried to visit him (I think I was just curious) astrally.

Anyway use common sense and dont do anything you wouldnt do in real life to anything astral. The astral world is very interesting. Treat its inhibitants with respect and they are likely to treat you with respect in return. (I hardly ever thou come across other beings when Im astral, I guess due to where I go when Im astral and its like not my house is full of others if Im astral here in my house.
The only thing to fear is the fear itself

Demonica
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Re: Lucid Dreaming/Astral Projection - Scared and stuck!

Postby Demonica » 14 Mar 2014 15:23

Thank you for taking the time to do such a detailed response :)

My odd sleep experiences did stop for a couple of days following a transfer at work (I'd been miserable in my old location - happier now) so I put it down to stress doing strange things. However, they're back now. I never try and make things happen, they just do. It's a mixture of semi-lucid dreams (I slip in and out of being aware) and the occasional feeling of trying to fight my way out of my body/the bed. Trying to sit up is akin to being velcro pulling apart, it isn't a smooth transition!

I spoke to a co-worker about it and her partner 'falls out' of his body sometimes and is able to walk around. It happens when he's extremely tired. She's loaned me a book about lucid dreaming which I'll slowly work my way through.

I know it sounds like a contradiction but I guess I consider myself an open-minded skeptic. As of this moment I'm assuming it's all in the brain and is biology/chemistry that I don't understand creating these weird experiences. If I were able to gain enough control and travel to a friend's home and tell them what they were watching on TV that night then I would certainly believe there's a lot more to it! I guess the whole lucid dreaming/astral projection differences come down to personal beliefs and experiences. I would love there to be more to this world than we know, to see/feel loved ones again, but I've not experienced anything to suggest that (yet!). Perhaps I should work harder at staying lucid/conscious throughout these experiences instead of getting scared and trying to wake myself up ^_^

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HAGART
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Re: Lucid Dreaming/Astral Projection - Scared and stuck!

Postby HAGART » 14 Mar 2014 18:50

I'm an open-minded skeptic too.

Taniaaust1 has her theory about the vibrations, and I have my own.

I believe it's due to our body slipping into REM muscle atonia (when your body paralyzes during sleep so we don't act them out). Signals are sent down the spine and through the body to 'switch it off'. But if we are mentally alert as it's happening it can lead to all sorts of crazy sensations due to mixed signals, and trying to interpret them. That would explain the feeling of vibration, or even some report feeling an electric charge coursing through them. I believe it's our central nervous system playing tricks on a dreamy mind, open to hallucinations. I experience a buzzing, drone sound sometimes too, as well as many others. That can be explained by the fact that our inner ear drums vibrate during REM sleep. (I heard that somewhere, but do your own research). We just happened to be aware as it was happening and with our dreamy states of mind, turn those sounds into familiar ones, such as a large fan humming. (I had that one once, and heard it's common).

I don't have any links, or resources to back my claim up. It's just stuff I've picked up over the years talking about it online, and it's just my opinion. Take in everybody's thoughts and then form your own, of course.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.


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