Video About the Phase State (LD/OBE)

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Summerlander
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Video About the Phase State (LD/OBE)

Postby Summerlander » 19 Apr 2014 16:46

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64_MvWQ25M8
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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deschainXIX
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Re: Video About the Phase State (LD/OBE)

Postby deschainXIX » 19 Apr 2014 18:28

Fascinating ... seems a little New Age-y to me, though. But it does make sense, the whole idea that we will eventually live in two realities. I think we already do. Our minds live in the reality we perceive and our bodies live in the reality that is "real." What we perceive in waking life has no difference in realism between the reality we perceive while dreaming. If you see what I mean.
Well said.

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Summerlander
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Re: Video About the Phase State (LD/OBE)

Postby Summerlander » 19 Apr 2014 20:52

Absolutely, I see what you mean. We already do live in two worlds, and, as the video posits, the fact that more and more people are lucid dreaming portends a future where the "phase" phenomenon will become, in evolutionary terms, more commonplace. It is even possible that we might speed up the evolution of consciousness in that department using new technology: imagine a Mindnet!

It is theorising about what's to come by observing how far we got in evolution. Trust me, the author, Michael Raduga, is anything but a New Age adherent. He doesn't believe in any of that and is more concerned with the practical side of things. He's very pragmatic and will enthusiastically point out how practising lucid dreaming can be used to one's advantage. When he mentions "out-of-body travel," he only means it in terms of what it appears to be, not in the sense that it really happens.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

Snaggle
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Re: Video About the Phase State (LD/OBE)

Postby Snaggle » 21 Apr 2014 00:31

Really seemed pretty new age to me too, but than I would put Scientology and the Heavne's gate cult in the New Age camp too, even though both are Atheistic. As an ad it reminded me of those ancient L. Ron Hubbard ads too.

Starts by confusing Evolution with Progress, then follows up with a New Age style promise that one cause evolution by entering the "Phase More" = nice except there's nothing new about any either the states or techniques.

Then more hype
- better than drugs - nice but real life highs are better than drugs and Lucid highs too.
- obtain information from ones subconscious - cool, but there's never a moment that one's not doing that.
- heal yourself - sure magic is real and lucid dreams can create stronger suggestions than the paceobo effect or hypnotism.
- travel - nice, but how real is lucid travel?
- do anything you want, again nice, but it's easy to overrate lucid experiences.

Major Hype - "the invisible hand behind all human history", that is going to cause major advances in medicine and computers and take us all into the Matrix! This is really New Age and making false promises like L. Ron Hubbard's "Clear state". WOW Transhumanism the new cult of Alchemy - really really New Age!

Using a scale of Atheistic New Agery like this
Level Zero - not at all New Age
Level One - Psychology Cult
Level Two - Atheistic Cult or the Scientology level, where it has become a "Religion" and like Religions used to exploit financially and gain power over their behavior
Level Three - Cult seeking to isolate and totally enslave it's believers, e.g. Marxism
Level Four - Misanthropic cult actually seeking to destroy human life, e.g Heaven's gate or the NWO

I don't know Summerland, but that Video/Commercial looks like your group has moved from Level One to Level Two. Credulity and Dogma are just as bad when Atheistic as Supernatural. Skepticism requires that one doubt and prove everything especially to doubt ones own prejudice.
"There is only one God and his name is Death.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel

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Summerlander
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Re: Video About the Phase State (LD/OBE)

Postby Summerlander » 21 Apr 2014 23:37

Snaggle, what the hell are you on about? First, the video reflects on the evolution of consciousness and hypothesises that the phase state could become more commonplace (than now - duh).

Second, if you check out Raduga's guidebook you will stop making silly assumptions about self-healing and realise that, yes, it's on about the placebo effect and still recommends proper medical assistance for serious ailments.

Third, if you don't think lucid dream highs can outdo real life highs, including drugs, if you won't even grant it such characteristic even in potential, then you either have not tried it or you are not doing it properly.

Forth, Heaven's Gate Cult is anything but atheistic. Either revise what the cult entailed or re-check what is meant by the word atheist.

Finally, Raduga is a materialist who abhors notions to do with the supernatural. "The hidden hand" is a figure of speech. There is such a thing as being poetic, Snaggle...

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

TillyPink
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Re: Video About the Phase State (LD/OBE)

Postby TillyPink » 22 Apr 2014 22:06

Hmm...maybe it's about who he is choosing to do his marketing? OBE4U is perhaps trying to tap into the current trend...but it just cheapens the ambition, potential and creativity of his plight. The questions i would be asking would be...'what kind of audience/participants is he trying to attract?' If he wants to promote his practical materialistic ambition to get this work across to those who want to explore beyond the cultish esoteric margins of society, this video doesn't really promote his case. For me, i would love to see something that might reach out to the masses...to say 'hey guys, I know this sounds weird, but it's not really, and here is *some* evidence to prove it, come and explore, have fun, and perhaps even experience what you thought to be imposable." The music is distracting and typically hyped up, and it is full of fast moving images that are very hard to take seriously. Sorry for the rubbish review. I know you'll appreciate honesty, and actually, one of the reasons i bothered to write in the end is because i actually think that you guys would like to get this work out there in a new light. So i come back to my first point...marketing....maybe he needs to look at who he is using to promote his work. All the best.

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HAGART
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Re: Video About the Phase State (LD/OBE)

Postby HAGART » 23 Apr 2014 04:24

I'm an outsider looking in, and always a diplomat at heart.
I agree with both sides somewhat.

I like Michael Raduga, but this was over the top and became, let's face it, an advertisement. It was too much, and didn't like the tone or the music and it put me off. But I've seen other material by him and really liked it, so you can't judge someone on one bad commercial.

I both stood up for him and derided him at the same time. (Diplomat at heart. INFP personality). ;)

But one thing I got out of this, although I am not on your side either, came from Snaggle. It's a good question:

Does evolution always mean 'progress'?
(Short answer: NO. Long answer: An entire book!)

For another topic perhaps....
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: Video About the Phase State (LD/OBE)

Postby Summerlander » 23 Apr 2014 08:38

Maybe marketing is not his forte, and, after all, he does welcome everyone to learn about the phenomenon no matter what they believe in. But once you read The Phase guidebook, you are struck by his pragmatism and obvious materialistic stance. He describes many authors in the field, too, and, in so many words, paints Stephen LaBerge as one of the few who has it right in his approach because it is, after all, scientific. As for evolution, no...it doesn't always mean progress, but, when it comes to waking consciousness manifesting during sleep, which is what the phase state is, it does seem to have its benefits (unless you guys disagree that lucid dreaming can be beneficial, in which case I remind you of the tennis player's improved technique overnight).

We never used to be self-aware therefore, yonks ago, our pre-historic ancestors weren't as conscious as we are today. Further back in time and it is purely a biological mechanism being excited by its habitat. Whether we made progress or not can be a matter of opinion but the change is quite distinct. If our brains had not developed to effect higher order intentionalities, our species wouldn't have survived. There was a time when there were only a few thousand of us on the planet and we were threatened by nature, with its plagues and catastrophes...

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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taniaaust1
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Re: Video About the Phase State (LD/OBE)

Postby taniaaust1 » 25 Apr 2014 01:57

Summerlander wrote:yonks ago, our pre-historic ancestors weren't as conscious as we are today. Further back in time and it is purely a biological mechanism being excited by its habitat. Whether we made progress or not can be a matter of opinion but the change is quite distinct. If our brains had not developed to effect higher order intentionalities, our species wouldn't have survived. There was a time when there were only a few thousand of us on the planet and we were threatened by nature, with its plagues and catastrophes...



Im not as sure as you are on that. Maybe they were as conscious, they could of been as conscious or even in pre-historic times maybe there were some who had more consciousness then us but it could of been of a different kind to what you or I may think what conscious is. How could we truely judge when consciousness isnt something to be found and guaged the true extent of in a fossil.

Its hard to judge anothers self awareness esp when this can come in different areas. Maybe some forms of conciousness are some which you dont currently even believe in eg Something most dont realise is that the australian aboriginals some tribes used psychic awareness for things to help them in life.

How does one truely judge being conscious? Maybe that grass you stepped on in your lawn was screaming in pain and was self aware.

For all we know our ancient anscestors may of been all lucid dreamers and able to gain knowledge at times by that etc with increased awareness to people now.
The only thing to fear is the fear itself

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HAGART
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Re: Video About the Phase State (LD/OBE)

Postby HAGART » 25 Apr 2014 02:26

I've considered the possibility that lucid dreaming may have been more common place in the past and was forgotten and now others are relearning it as if it's something new. But nobody is learning; They are just re-learning. No way to prove that, but it's something I've considered.

Lucid dreaming is not something that started yesterday, or even back in the 70's when it was 'discovered'. It's been around for quite a while, and some long ago before written records, were probably very good at it and could teach us a thing or two today if they were on this forum.

Or perhaps it only appears to be more prevalent today because of all the new books, and movies about it and the internet. But the same percentage of the population of lucid dreamers has been left unchanged over the years. If this is true, however, then there would be an increase in lucid dreamers worldwide today due to others who are not naturals, learning how, and joining the ones who would have been part of that natural percentage.

But I'm only talking about human history after civilization. Go back further to early human evolution, "pre-historic ancestors" as Summerlander specifically said, and you must admit that dreaming and lucid dreaming was somehow evolutionarily advantageous or else it wouldn't exist today.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.


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