Death

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HAGART
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Re: Death

Postby HAGART » 28 May 2014 03:08

(I was talkative again, and just banging out ideas without a fully developed focus or idea, but sometimes it's a great way to trigger something.)

I was thinking more about this too, and was reminded of Summerlander's question in another off-topic, topic: Why is there anything at all?

"Nothing" actually makes more sense to me than "something".

Why is it that we only perceive waves? Maybe we are waves and everything is. Light and sound and some speculate that matter itself is a wave. When you touch something you actually are never in contact with it. The atoms don't touch, yet we feel it. :o All of reality as we know it is interpreting waves (which can be described mathematically without emotion), but they are an enigma to me. What is a wave anyway?

I have an out of the box idea with no science to back it up, but if an object moves through space, and has something orbiting it, that orbiting object's location in time, when graphed, would look like a wave. Or as it's orbiting the moving object it would appear to accelerate and slow down, and that too, when graphed, would look like a wave. (I can see it in my head and feel free to ask for clarification). Simply put, two things I've noticed about this universe:
1.There are a heck of a lot of waves
2. Everything seems to be in an orbit.
I think there's a connection. And you can't perceive anything unless there is something to compare it to. (Relativity?).

I think of the 'big bang' as a still pond that a rock fell into and created ripples. If the pond was still there would be no waves to perceive and consciousness wouldn't know it was conscious even if there was one. Maybe there only is consciousness and it was the one who threw the rock, and we are in a shared dream, but not the dreamer, so must abide by physical laws by that main consciousness when awake.

I know, MAKER is as intrigued by sacred geometry as I am and I can't help but think about "The Flower of Life" and a good explanation of it. It's like consciousness is born (don't know how or who threw the rock), but it sees a reality it made, a universe of some kind, and it is a circle around the center of the individual. Then he/she/it travels to the edge of the circle and does it again, creating a new one that overlaps the original, creating a shared space like a Venne Diagram. Then it happens again and again and again....
That's just something I am reminded of and may, or may not, help.

Yet more food for thought. Our brain certainly looks like an intestine so it's fitting. What do both have in common? Maximum surface area in a small space. (And some have shit for brains... :lol: )

That's my daily rant yet again. I like to have a few beers, go online and blab. Thanks for listening! 8-)
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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MAKER
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Re: Death

Postby MAKER » 30 May 2014 02:22

Summerlander wrote:Aparently scientists have detected gravitational waves from the Big Bang which appear to indicate that the power of inflation was so great that, in all likelihood, it must have produced innumerable "bubble" universes.


This reminds me of the very first "Cosmos" episode (remake version, not the Carl Sagan version). I wonder if everything just keeps going out or down infinitely in a telescoping manner. I'll look up the article, thanks for the info!

HAGART wrote:I know, MAKER is as intrigued by sacred geometry as I am and I can't help but think about "The Flower of Life" and a good explanation of it. It's like consciousness is born (don't know how or who threw the rock), but it sees a reality it made, a universe of some kind, and it is a circle around the center of the individual. Then he/she/it travels to the edge of the circle and does it again, creating a new one that overlaps the original, creating a shared space like a Venne Diagram. Then it happens again and again and again...


I can't remember where I saw this before in a video demonstration, but was really cool to think about. Sacred geometry is definitely a cool subject, and goes along with the idea that everything is an algorithm!

So, I finally had a LD today, which is very on subject. It was long, so I'll get to the juicy part.

I had picked up a very beautiful blonde girl (was driving in a car) and after talking, she told me she was dying. I said sorry, then asked her what happens when we die. She said, "I go back to being my true self when I die."
In the dream, I intuitively took that to mean that we are some other being or self (true self) that is manifesting itself in different forms. To what end, I didn't ask and she didn't tell. I then told her that if she was a dreamer and really had a physical body, she should search for me, and I gave her my full name. Shortly after, we started getting hot and heavy and the dream faded from my excitement :cry: .

There was a lot more, but that's the only part that really pertains to this thread. I'm still on my LD high :mrgreen: !

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HAGART
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Re: Death

Postby HAGART » 30 May 2014 04:30

MAKER wrote:In the dream, I intuitively took that to mean that we are some other being or self (true self) that is manifesting itself in different forms.


Your intuition is more important than the actual words the DC uses. Sometimes we 'just know' what they mean. Right or wrong, it's important to make note of that when recalling our dreams.

I was driving a car a few years ago, awake, and no cute blond to get 'hot and heavy' with, :cry: . And something hit me. (not a deer). An idea hit me. I felt like there was a dimension of life, like a blob of white, energy, plasma that flows like water, and it was exuding into this dimension taking whatever form it could! And when we die we return to that blob of love. One singular life.

This was after reading many near death experiences, but I still can't shake the feeling. Sometimes our day dreams are as profound as a lucid dream. (My day dream could have used a cute blond though). ;)

I was trying to look up George Carlin's reference to the 'big electron', but got this instead. I never saw it before, but you might relate and enjoy this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwxnrCPz5EY

Others think of life and death and somehow make it amusing as comedians. This is a song someone made out of it, and I think it relates and lightens the mood on it. I know MAKER's mood is lightened after his LD high - I know the feeling! :D
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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MAKER
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Re: Death

Postby MAKER » 30 May 2014 06:32

HAGART wrote:Your intuition is more important than the actual words the DC uses. Sometimes we 'just know' what they mean.


Definitely agree. I had one where I was sucked up into space after telling my dream to show me what it needed. Without a word, I understood all that it was showing me about the universe and its workings.

HAGART wrote:An idea hit me. I felt like there was a dimension of life, like a blob of white, energy, plasma that flows like water, and it was exuding into this dimension taking whatever form it could! And when we die we return to that blob of love. One singular life.


An awesome thought! That's pretty to similar to gnostic philosophy, and to what DC's and LDs have presented to me. Although, I do take all that I "discover" in LDs with a grain of salt as the answers given to my questions are most likely heavily influenced by the information I take in.

HAGART wrote:I was trying to look up George Carlin's reference to the 'big electron', but got this instead. I never saw it before, but you might relate and enjoy this:


Big coincidence that you posted this...I was actually on a ride throughout the whole dream. Another DC was driving, and I was in the passenger seat. We picked up the blonde in a traffic jam :D .

Not really related, but I know we talked about recurring DCs in another thread sometime back. The blonde wasn't a recurring DC, BUT I have had many dreams (both lucid and normal) with a blonde girl that always grabs my attention. In one LD, the blonde girl told me we were going to meet in the future, which is why I told this girl if she was another dreamer to search for me. I like the idea of the dream space being both shared and personal, although I have no experience of that being true. If a blonde ever hits me up because of a dream, I will definitely let you know!

HAGART wrote:I know MAKER's mood is lightened after his LD high - I know the feeling


Here's another non-related question:
What do your most profound LD highs feel like?
For me, it's almost a sense of hyper-excitement with a profound sense of peace and reflection on the dream.

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HAGART
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Re: Death

Postby HAGART » 30 May 2014 18:38

MAKER wrote:What do your most profound LD highs feel like?
For me, it's almost a sense of hyper-excitement with a profound sense of peace and reflection on the dream.


For me, it's like I just got off a thrilling virtual-reality amusement park ride, and I feel more calm and Zen-like than usual. Things don't irritate me and I don't sweat the small stuff.

Reminds me of adrenalin junkies and surfers. I guess it would be the same for everybody - A great thrill leaves the mind calm. And lucid dreams are certainly thrilling!

Their the best rides I've ever been on in this theme park we call, 'Life'. :ugeek:
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Karin
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Re: Death

Postby Karin » 02 Jun 2014 17:31

HAGART wrote:... P.S. This bewildered me for the past few days. I heard there are more bacteria in your body living free than cells in your own body. (not sure if that's true or not, but if so) We are like a microchasm of planet Earth! Makes you question who you really are if your own body is mostly not you and where does 'you' or 'I' begin and where does it end ...


I was just browsing this forum semi-randomly and saw the above quote: that's interesting, that's a topic dear to me. Yes, it is true, the bacteria living in use outnumber our cells by a factor 10. Most of them live in our gut/bowel. I have dived deep into this stuff for the past several years (from a scientific perspective, no woo-woo), and have numerous personal first-hand experiences on how these bacteria do directly influence our brain function and our minds. It goes both ways: our mind influences the bacteria colonies, and they do influence our minds, sometimes to the point of insanity (through immune reactions and directly through the chemicals they manufacture right there in our guts, just think fungus and psychedelics). It is mind-blowing to think that many people in mental institutions could possibly get dramatically better through well-targeted antimicrobial treatments, complete changes in diet, and probiotics/cultured foods (and fasten your seat-belts: future stool transplants). And it's funny, I have had the exact same thought recently: our bodies are reflections of our Earth ecosystem (and vice-versa), and the damage done to Earth through pesticides, toxins, intensive agriculture techniques, etc.... is reflected in the damage done to our gut ecosystems. IMO, chronic illnesses, allergies, cancers, etc... have a lot to do with this. This is starting to come out big time in mainstream medical research, finally!

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Summerlander
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Re: Death

Postby Summerlander » 03 Jun 2014 01:20

Nice piece of info there. Thanks, Karin. B-)

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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HAGART
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Re: Death

Postby HAGART » 03 Jun 2014 02:57

I have come to terms with the concept of "self" being a construct of the mind, an ever-changing, whimsical illusion up in the air, swirling like a whirlwind. Now, I am starting to realize that even my body is not as concrete as I thought it was.

I already knew that with every breath my body physically changes as new molecules are absorbed and others are expelled, not to mention shedding skin cells and eating and defecating. And it never goes anywhere. It's always stuck on Earth and reabsorbed again by other life.

But now, as you have elaborated on it, Karin, I am realizing that my body is even MORE hard to pinpoint. It is also a symbiotic relationship with many other organisms, each with their own 'self'. :o

Where does it begin and where does it end? Even though I can't explain it, I like my 'microchasm of planet Earth' analogy. That also means the earth functions the same way and is constantly seeking homeostasis and gets 'sick' if it can't achieve it. And just like a fractal, we are in the middle of an infinite spectrum of that... "life force?"

Sounds spiritual or "JEDI"... but all I mean is that mathematically it all seems to work in the large scale and small scale, but there is no size at all if we dismiss that our mind and body have no size either.... :o :shock: :o (It's hard to wrap my mind around...)
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: Death

Postby Summerlander » 05 Jun 2014 16:57

HAGART wrote:Sounds spiritual or "JEDI"... but all I mean is that mathematically it all seems to work in the large scale and small scale, but there is no size at all if we dismiss that our mind and body have no size either.... :o :shock: :o (It's hard to wrap my mind around...)


There is a beautiful pantheism conveyed there which is redolent of Spinoza's freethinking (particularly where it is stated that God is nothing but the infinite universe). Spinoza, to put his philosophy bluntly and in the most no-nonsense way possible, implied that God is everywhere and nowhere (not the God of monotheism) - nature itself. He had trashed the Torah, was kicked out of the Jewish circle, and was labelled a heretic. As a great philosopher, he set himself on the right path when he criticised all religion - he could see through it and was only being honest! The spirit of secularism lived in him for sure...

"Spinoza's Ethics argued that God and the infinite Universe are one and the same thing. God isn't a person, and didn't create the world with a purpose in mind. All things, including human thoughts and actions, are inevitable consequences of earlier things, and ultimately follow a causal chain of events. He argued that the mind and the body are one and the same thing, a position described as neutral monism. Spinoza advised people to join with like-minded individuals into societies that promote clear reasoning. Lastly, he explained how to overcome one's emotions and fear of death."

http://pantheist.weebly.com/spinoza.html

Spinoza, like John Stuart Mill, influenced the great mathematician Bertrand Russell (yes, the one who discovered Russell's Paradox*), as you can see in the following lecture where he evinces his atheistic stance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F6J8o7AAe8

*Russell's Paradox: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/russell-paradox/

I do not see any supernatural forces at work in anything. Even consciousness, which currently remains a puzzle, shouldn't be prematurely said to have a supernatural origin. Given what neuroscience shows us so far, in particular where the mind can be affected in a number of ways when the brain is faulty, I deem it more likely that the self is, to put it in the words of Norretranders, a "user illusion." An illusion, which, I strongly suspect, comes about by a peculiar and incidental relationship between the macro and the micro such as the one we observe in the human brain. It has already been demonstrated that gamma brainwaves, which play an important role in heightening consciousness, have their roots in the quantum realm. But let's not forget that, ostensibly, a Tonomian brain system in the classical realm is also needed.

What am I saying? Am I saying that there is no afterlife? That's what it looks like. I am saying that, once your brain - in the peculiar way that it is arranged which promotes your individual sense of self - is destroyed, you cease to be. In short: death means death. :twisted:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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HAGART
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Re: Death

Postby HAGART » 05 Jun 2014 18:26

If your body (including brain) slowly turns into another being, let's say a fly, like the classic movie, you're sense of self would cease to be and you would die for all intense and purposes. It's actually a very 'existential' film. (I put it in quotes because I am never quite sure what the definition of 'existentialism' is).

That also means, hypothetically, you could turn a fly into a human and bring back the dead! (Just need to implant the right memories). Perhaps that will happen a million years from now and when you die it will be like a blink of an eye and you are reborn again a million years from now when your clone is created on a different planet. (Be careful what you wish for though. The future may not be friendly, and we may be mere lab rats or slaves for an alien race!). I watch too many movies......

Another classic movie I am reminded of is The Incredible Shrinking Man. It's an old black and white movie, and on the surface is a sci-fi thriller, but it gets deep at the end. Dare I say, existential? I haven't seen it in ages, but I remember in the end it was very thought-provoking. I don't want to give it away though, but it made me think about our concept of size and just how small can you get and still exist?
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.


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