Summerlander wrote: Your analogy, I'm afraid, doesn't hold any water: whatever is being experienced, be it dream or reality, can feel real to the individual at the time. In fact, a dream can be said to feel real, and, at times, a real life experience can be so shocking as to be said to feel "unreal."
I dont disput that at all (I dont know where you got the idea I disagreed with that). Ive been saying that myself, both dreams and astral projections can feel very real (thou there is a very very slight difference feel.. a sense of knowing.. like a psi sense of knowing.. but its so subtle it can be very hard to tell). Also your phase state is an altered state of consciousness... I agree too that these states start with one of those.
lucid dreams can give practitioners the impression that they are somewhere other than where their sleeping bodies lie: this is, by definition, an out-of-body experience. (Emphasis on the word experience: note that, originally and rightfully, the "OBE" term does not empirically posit that the out-of-body state is the case, it merely tells that the individual has the experience of being "out-of-body" - thus, it still leaves room for the meritable interpretation that what is experienced is an illusion.)
If you are going to use the term OBE like that, and you are right it may be used like that too. I should start refering to what Im refering to as astral projection instead.
Photos don't cut it, especially in this day and age.
The photo I was refering to was not a digital one and one I'd inspected and had the marks on the back (Kodak or something.. it had been developed by a well known photo place). This was back before we all had computers and digital cameras.
Nobody has ever proved, scientifically, that such things happen, so, it is irresponsible to prematurely claim that they do and that astral projection (travelling to astral planes in spirit), and "real-time zone" OBEs, are real. We have all come across Monroesque propaganda and some of us have read Robert Bruce's "Astral Dynamics" treatise - in the end, they are just ideas often passed on as truisms. Where is the evidence?
Those who experience this dont care if it hasnt been proved. I resonate to Robert Bruces stuff and do believe he's a valid astral projector. Some of his stranger experiences in the astral, were exactly like mine!!.. even thou I hadnt read his stuff till after I had my experiences (and Im sure he hadnt read my stuff online and copied my experiences into his book!! but I guess you will say you think I should consider that may of occured).
I've done it so many times, and, so far, nothing. In fact, this is something that Stephen LaBerge, who, by and large, takes the hard-nosed approach, recommends in his "Exploring The World of Lucid Dreaming." If you believe the bedroom before you is the physical world, test it. Otherwise you're just having a WILD. This I can claim insofar as experience can ascertain: Every time I have made attempts to separate from my physical body I have always found myself lucidly gallivanting in a dream world capable of closely replicating the familiarity of my home environment.
Well you just had a WILD then.
I am yet to come across someone who has had real OBEs and can prove it. You are welcome to visit me in the OBE-state and bruise my buttock if you like. That would certainly shut me up.
I will remember that in case I ever get bored of doing LD and go back to doing AP.
You should go on the James Randi show. One million dollars is still up for grabs.
Are you aware that he wants the person to pay all the costs of the experiment and with the way he wants things set up.. they are large costs.. due to things like this.. people dont take up his offer. (I spoke to some of his people in the past about setting up a reiki healing experiment).
You could still have had (in the completely subjective dream sense) a mere nightmare, and, having heard your account of it, the high priest fed you a pack of lies. Isn't this more feasible? Or don't you like this interpretation? Note again how religious sects claim to know more on such matters without any evidence whatsoever.
Yes is possible but I do believe he wasnt lying. I learnt later on (after our talk) that it was actually a common thing for Wiccians to have house protection or wards. Talk to most serious Wiccian people and ask them if they have set up wards or protection around their house and you will see that most will say yes! So its doubtful he lied. Its more likely due to him being a high priest of an coven, that he in fact did this. (and I know his coven isnt a lie as I did go to one group meeting before I started taking one to one lessons with him).
But you are right.. that is something someone could lie about but it doesnt explain my other experiences thou.