What's the difference between astral projection and ld?

If you're new to lucid dreaming, browse this forum for answers to your questions, or post and ask for specific tips on getting started.
User avatar
taniaaust1
Posts: 2990
Joined: 07 Feb 2013 15:32
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: What's the difference between astral projection and ld?

Postby taniaaust1 » 09 Jun 2014 13:54

Augh! sometimes I hate computers, I just lost a very long post to you in response Summerlander. (Im not going to try doing it again as Im so frustrated about loosing it). I'll just now only comment on a few things.

Summerlander wrote: Your analogy, I'm afraid, doesn't hold any water: whatever is being experienced, be it dream or reality, can feel real to the individual at the time. In fact, a dream can be said to feel real, and, at times, a real life experience can be so shocking as to be said to feel "unreal."


I dont disput that at all (I dont know where you got the idea I disagreed with that). Ive been saying that myself, both dreams and astral projections can feel very real (thou there is a very very slight difference feel.. a sense of knowing.. like a psi sense of knowing.. but its so subtle it can be very hard to tell). Also your phase state is an altered state of consciousness... I agree too that these states start with one of those.

lucid dreams can give practitioners the impression that they are somewhere other than where their sleeping bodies lie: this is, by definition, an out-of-body experience. (Emphasis on the word experience: note that, originally and rightfully, the "OBE" term does not empirically posit that the out-of-body state is the case, it merely tells that the individual has the experience of being "out-of-body" - thus, it still leaves room for the meritable interpretation that what is experienced is an illusion.)


If you are going to use the term OBE like that, and you are right it may be used like that too. I should start refering to what Im refering to as astral projection instead.

Photos don't cut it, especially in this day and age.


The photo I was refering to was not a digital one and one I'd inspected and had the marks on the back (Kodak or something.. it had been developed by a well known photo place). This was back before we all had computers and digital cameras.

Nobody has ever proved, scientifically, that such things happen, so, it is irresponsible to prematurely claim that they do and that astral projection (travelling to astral planes in spirit), and "real-time zone" OBEs, are real. We have all come across Monroesque propaganda and some of us have read Robert Bruce's "Astral Dynamics" treatise - in the end, they are just ideas often passed on as truisms. Where is the evidence?


Those who experience this dont care if it hasnt been proved. I resonate to Robert Bruces stuff and do believe he's a valid astral projector. Some of his stranger experiences in the astral, were exactly like mine!!.. even thou I hadnt read his stuff till after I had my experiences (and Im sure he hadnt read my stuff online and copied my experiences into his book!! but I guess you will say you think I should consider that may of occured).

I've done it so many times, and, so far, nothing. In fact, this is something that Stephen LaBerge, who, by and large, takes the hard-nosed approach, recommends in his "Exploring The World of Lucid Dreaming." If you believe the bedroom before you is the physical world, test it. Otherwise you're just having a WILD. This I can claim insofar as experience can ascertain: Every time I have made attempts to separate from my physical body I have always found myself lucidly gallivanting in a dream world capable of closely replicating the familiarity of my home environment.


Well you just had a WILD then.

I am yet to come across someone who has had real OBEs and can prove it. You are welcome to visit me in the OBE-state and bruise my buttock if you like. That would certainly shut me up. :mrgreen:


I will remember that in case I ever get bored of doing LD and go back to doing AP.

You should go on the James Randi show. One million dollars is still up for grabs. 8-)


Are you aware that he wants the person to pay all the costs of the experiment and with the way he wants things set up.. they are large costs.. due to things like this.. people dont take up his offer. (I spoke to some of his people in the past about setting up a reiki healing experiment).

You could still have had (in the completely subjective dream sense) a mere nightmare, and, having heard your account of it, the high priest fed you a pack of lies. Isn't this more feasible? Or don't you like this interpretation? Note again how religious sects claim to know more on such matters without any evidence whatsoever.


Yes is possible but I do believe he wasnt lying. I learnt later on (after our talk) that it was actually a common thing for Wiccians to have house protection or wards. Talk to most serious Wiccian people and ask them if they have set up wards or protection around their house and you will see that most will say yes! So its doubtful he lied. Its more likely due to him being a high priest of an coven, that he in fact did this. (and I know his coven isnt a lie as I did go to one group meeting before I started taking one to one lessons with him).

But you are right.. that is something someone could lie about but it doesnt explain my other experiences thou.
The only thing to fear is the fear itself

Xizt
Posts: 6
Joined: 02 Jun 2014 13:13

Re: What's the difference between astral projection and ld?

Postby Xizt » 10 Jun 2014 21:37

Like Summerlander said - I'm only a novice, but I can kind of realize what the Lucid Dreaming & Astral Projection conflict is about. It's basically someone religious against someone non-religious, or just someone who doesn't believe in things like Astral Projection. I never knew Astral Projection was so religious, I just thought it was a different kind of experience, something a little different from Lucid Dreaming. After doing some research, in my opinion - both are the same exact thing.

It's just whatever you want or expect the dream experience to be, when you go to sleep. Obviously, if you believe in Astral Projection and all the myths about it - you'll experience the myths, vibrations, silver cord whatever else people say Astral Projection has. Like I said, I'm new but if you think AP is superior/better compared to LDing (Wouldn't your dream about AP be more vivid and a better experience? If you get what I'm trying to say) I could say I had an 'OBE/AP' but I'm not going to, I expected to have one and wake up in the 'real world' so I did. Now I realize it was just a Lucid Dream, and I dreamed about what I expected to.

I don't believe in absurd things like pinching someone while dreaming, then that happens in real life. I'm just going to say I just had a 30 second, interesting vivid lucid dream. Definitely going to practice more. Thanks for the help everyone, anyways. Definitely learned a lot :)

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 3640
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: What's the difference between astral projection and ld?

Postby Summerlander » 11 Jun 2014 18:24

I wholeheartedly agree with that. ^^

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

User avatar
nesgirl
Posts: 1278
Joined: 25 May 2014 23:10

Re: What's the difference between astral projection and ld?

Postby nesgirl » 12 Jun 2014 06:03

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 21 May 2015 06:55, edited 1 time in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 3640
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: What's the difference between astral projection and ld?

Postby Summerlander » 12 Jun 2014 21:05

It's not multimedia. Self-delusion predates technology and is as old as our prehistoric ancestors: early man thought dreams were objectively real; they couldn't explain so many things so they assigned invisible agents to them (gods/demons); superstition was appallingly and dangerously ripe; and certain beliefs like the world being flat was so dear to them that they couldn't even contemplate being wrong about that.

As for the astral projection belief: it is certainly derived from religion: the concept of heaven and hell is expressed in lower or higher astral realms; angels have become benevolent higher beings; demons are negative entities; souls have become astral bodies or spirits that survive physical death; we are immortal and eternal and raising or lowering our energies determine where we end up; God does not need to exist in New Age or Spiritualist movements but karma often enters the equation which implies a higher power (sometimes called higher consciousness) that cares abut what we do and has a judgemental nature etc. etc. (The latter I abhor the most as it implies a divine totalitarian regime where Big Brother perpetually keeps an eye on us. What a hideous view! Has anyone ever read George Orwell's "Nineteen Eighty-Four" or even seen the film of the same name? i feel for poor Winston...)

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

User avatar
nesgirl
Posts: 1278
Joined: 25 May 2014 23:10

Re: What's the difference between astral projection and ld?

Postby nesgirl » 13 Jun 2014 03:26

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 21 May 2015 06:55, edited 1 time in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 3640
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: What's the difference between astral projection and ld?

Postby Summerlander » 13 Jun 2014 11:02

Whatever shape or form multimedia took prehistorically, or proto-multimedia, it is clear that the imaginative and creative human mind is the source and thus solely to blame.

People who readily die for their religious beliefs are moved by faith (which, in my opinion, isn't a virtue at all and should be distinguished from hope). Faith gets you to believe in something without evidence. This is against reason and is a dangerous way to live. You will notice in particular that religious doctrine is passed off as the unquestionable truth and its denial is often seen as blasphemous by the pious.

Why do people commit suicide, homicide, or sometimes both for their religious beliefs? Because they have been brainwashed. Nothing to do with depression. Wahabi suicide bombers believe in the cause of jihadbecause the Quran ordains it and glorifies martyrdom. It is supposed to be the unalterable word of God. Did you know that these "soldiers of God" are also virgins? So when it is promised to them that if they die as martyrs they will end up in a hedonistic heaven full of virgins of the opposite sex, it can be quite appealling in their specially conditioned state of mind.

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

User avatar
nesgirl
Posts: 1278
Joined: 25 May 2014 23:10

Re: What's the difference between astral projection and ld?

Postby nesgirl » 14 Jun 2014 03:05

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 21 May 2015 06:56, edited 1 time in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 3640
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: What's the difference between astral projection and ld?

Postby Summerlander » 15 Jun 2014 01:24

I saw Cast Away years ago. It was certainly an unusual film and quite philosophical. I think the guy was losing his marbles after being marooned for so long. When he was swimming for that ball I wanted to yell in his ear, "Wilson is just a ball, an object, it doesn't care about you!" I thought the film was overrated and I wouldn't watch it again.

On discrimination: I wouldn't discriminate against anyone but I will criticise religion whenever possible. Criticising religion is criticising a set of bad ideas and concepts of unreason. Its adherents feel offended because they identify with the madness, thus bringing shame upon themselves.

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

User avatar
nesgirl
Posts: 1278
Joined: 25 May 2014 23:10

Re: What's the difference between astral projection and ld?

Postby nesgirl » 15 Jun 2014 03:02

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 21 May 2015 06:57, edited 1 time in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.


Return to “For Beginners”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest