For all other chat which isn't directly related to lucid dreaming and the world of sleep and dreams.
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Re: Tulpas

Postby Snaggle » 05 Jul 2014 10:05

Summerlander wrote:...Do you know the definition of a tulpa according to Tibetan Buddhism, Snaggle? Look it up and then try not to mince your words or distort semantics. B-)

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Sprul-pa has several meanings both in Tibetan and Tibetan Buddhism; but we're talking about a mentally created and emanated in the waking world of a person, object or place. Sprul-pa in this sense are recognized to be only visualized vivid dream content in Tibetan Buddhism. When using a foreign word in another language a certain amount of "semantic distortions" occur, because any translation of a very foreign word is going to be a distortion of it's full meaning.

And saying that Tulpas "exist" in Hinduism and Buddhism, or that some form of yoga strengthens the visualisation of hallucinations for that matter, does not equate with Tulpas objectively existing!

I object most to something that may only be a semantic difference between us. You said that tulpa are only imaginary. Dreams lucid and otherwise are not just imaginary.
They can be detected and it's claimed that the images can be recorded too (have not examined this technology much so don't know if they really can be). Dreams are real things, not just imaginary things, Sprul-pa are as real as any dream. They also have practical uses not contected to religion in anyway, e.g. Tesla worked on his inventions by visualizing them while awake. They're not really hallucinations either though related to them in about the same way a lucid dream with dream control is related to a normal dream or lucid dream without control.

Snaggle: The difference is that I don't believe the hags I experience in SP are real. Anyone who believes that their waking hallucinations have an objective existence is deluded.

Are you claiming that you never thought them real or always knew what they were?
"There is only one God and his name is Death.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel

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Re: Tulpas

Postby Summerlander » 06 Jul 2014 01:25

First of all, dreams are also known as sleep hallucinations. Also, visualisations, imagination, thoughts, and even emotions, can be detected at the level of the brain. Of course the physical systems and their activity are real. Of course dreams have the potential to feel just as real as waking life. If you prefer, even imagination is, to a degree, real in the subjective sense. But if we are going to get pedantic, then let us stress the obvious distinction: mind stuff which is not constrained by sensory input is NOT objectively real. (As opposed to mind stuff constrained by sensory input which can be taken to represent what actually exists in the external world.)

Dreams, hallucination and imagination reside in the realm of the surreal or outright unreal. Tulpas are NOT objectively real. The active physiology is but the mental byproduct isn't. The latter is subjective and illusory. So, what is the problem, Snaggle? You already suspect it's semantics, so, where are we going with this.

As for the "hags" in SP, no, I didn't always know about their true nature. I, too, was young and naive once. But I've always been inquisitive and I guess I broke the spell once I realised it was all in my head. ;-)

How you took my statement to mean that I've always known what the SP "hags" are is beyond me. It's like John Nash isn't allowed to say schizos who believe their hallucinations are not lucid... :-/

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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