The Fermi Paradox

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Rebecca
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Re: The Fermi Paradox

Postby Rebecca » 10 Jul 2014 22:50

Then there's this rather sobering theory:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/mar/14/nasa-civilisation-irreversible-collapse-study-scientists

Summary: NASA-funded study concludes "the process of rise-and-collapse is actually a recurrent cycle found throughout history" - and we're no different. Our civilization will be lost within a few decades.

I can tell you, that rather ruined my day.

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Summerlander
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Re: The Fermi Paradox

Postby Summerlander » 11 Jul 2014 11:48

This sounds dreadful. I know many factors come into play, such as, agriculture, population, climate change etc. But I couldn't help but notice this passage:

"Collapse can be avoided and population can reach equilibrium if the per capita rate of depletion of nature is reduced to a sustainable level, and if resources are distributed in a reasonably equitable fashion."

What if we had a classless society, or some egalitarian system where resources are evenly distributed by law. I'm thinking of a new world order as a means to survive. Could global Communism (closer to Trotsky's ideas than Stalin's) help the situation? :(
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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deschainXIX
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Re: The Fermi Paradox

Postby deschainXIX » 11 Jul 2014 16:50

Infinity is a truly amazing concept.
But there's a way we can deny the suggestion that the universe is infinite. IF the universe was infinite, then we can be sure that an alien would have contacted us by now. There would be an infinite number of species to have made it to our planet and been unable to keep their presence a secret from us. Or at least sent us some sort of message. So ... I think we can be sure the universe is not infinite. Or my reasoning has gone dreadfully awry somewhere. ;)

Anyone who didn't read the article, I strongly advise you to read the whole thing; it's definitely worth it. I think "the Great Filter" mentioned is evil. Humans have an unfathomable capacity for evil and I'm sure we'll destroy ourselves through it before we can become a Type III civilization, just like all other intelligent life has.

But I think that all it would take would be ONE species to make it through the Great Filter, and then they could directly interfere with the laws of nature and help other species to do the same. Suppose there is a whole network of alien species who have made it through the Great Filter and they're sort of experimenting with us, allowing us to evolve and become more intelligent naturally by not interfering.

If the universe is a simulation created by some scientist in a virtual petri dish from another world, then the Fermi Paradox is resolved: other life forms in the universe simply weren't programmed into the system.

In reference to the second article, there'd be nothing we could do to stop that, even if we could. There are too many people who don't want to even consider any world-ending theories ... I guess because they're too scared to?
Well said.

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Summerlander
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Re: The Fermi Paradox

Postby Summerlander » 13 Jul 2014 00:41

We could stumble upon a real solution that ancient advanced civilisations like the Romans and Hans didn't. I'm being optimistic here for once. And trying to make Rebecca feel better. There's a first time for everything...

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Peter
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Re: The Fermi Paradox

Postby Peter » 13 Jul 2014 05:12

Imagine what it would do if we found out we are the only form of organic life that exists and that's how we should think until we know different.

I think at times that we are the only life in this form and we are an experiment or this form of life that we inhibit (a meat body dependent on senses) is a gift or punishment depending on your view of life
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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HAGART
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Re: The Fermi Paradox

Postby HAGART » 13 Jul 2014 06:42

Welcome back to the forum, Peter.

I was thinking more about this today: If life sprouted from nothing, from the "primordial ooze", and matter and energy just coagulated somehow to form simple life, why hasn't it been done in a lab under controlled variables?

Why is it so hard, if it's so natural?

Maybe it isn't and we truly are special!
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: The Fermi Paradox

Postby Summerlander » 14 Jul 2014 00:55

Don't forget that we have evolved over millions of years, Hagart. :-D

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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HAGART
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Re: The Fermi Paradox

Postby HAGART » 14 Jul 2014 02:03

I meant the initial spark of life, and not saying 'grow a human'.

But now that I think about it, even if atoms come together to form the molecules required for an organic life form, it would still take a really long time, through random interactions, cause and effects, just to achieve something that is self-replicating. So yea, you can't make one overnight in a Petri Dish.

So maybe we don't need to find other life in the Universe to prove we are not alone, but simply the potential for life. Because after that, all it takes is time, and the Universe sure has a lot on it's hands.

So now I take it back. I am not special after all. :( ;)

And the initial spark I was referring to, may just have been random cause and effect and it's not like sparking Frakenstein's Monster to life. But there must be a tipping point when it just happens!
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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deschainXIX
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Re: The Fermi Paradox

Postby deschainXIX » 14 Jul 2014 03:16

I think most of the universe's mysteries could be solved if we simply looked far enough. I mean if we could literally see at great distances. Since time and space is relative to the observer, if we were to look far enough away from us, we could, in theory, see the beginning of the universe. Or we could look at the earth with the same technology and see us evolving from the primordial ooze into single-celled organisms. And so on. Suppose we have it entirely wrong. Scientists did, up until a couple hundred years ago, believe in this:

Image
Well said.

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Karin
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Re: The Fermi Paradox

Postby Karin » 14 Jul 2014 13:09

deschainXIX wrote:... Or we could look at the earth with the same technology and see us evolving from the primordial ooze into single-celled organisms. And so on. Suppose we have it entirely wrong. ...

Ha ha ha, that's exactly what I am suspecting! :D :D
(I don't know, but I know that I don't know...)


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