Why some people CAN'T lucid dream.

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HAGART
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Re: Why some people CAN'T lucid dream.

Postby HAGART » 16 Jul 2014 07:03

I'm open minded and I'll try it myself before shooting it down.

TV certainly puts us in a trance, hypnotizes us, which make us open to suggestion which is already half asleep, so there is an element of truth to it. I'm not going to knock it down right away. I'm humble enough to know that I cannot dismiss an idea without first trying it myself. And what does KungfuPanther have to lose?

All good suggestions and let them decide.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Karin
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Re: Why some people CAN'T lucid dream.

Postby Karin » 16 Jul 2014 12:42

How long have you been lucid dreaming and how long did it take you?

My first lucid dream happened last year, in my mid-40's. I must say though that I was never interested in lucid dreams until this happened.

However, I became very interested in understanding consciousness two years ago, which is when I started meditating. But the idea of lucid dream sounded like a waste of time to me, like something one would do for entertainment, and entertainment is not something I seek. What I really crave for is learning (though if it's fun at the same time it certainly is a plus). But when I had that first spontaneous lucid dream, even though it was very short, it did strike me that there could be a lot to learn about consciousness through lucid dreams. I know this must be obvious to everyone here, but it wasn't to me... :roll:

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KungFuPanther
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Re: Why some people CAN'T lucid dream.

Postby KungFuPanther » 16 Jul 2014 15:48

nesgirl wrote:
HAGART wrote:I never heard of nesgirl's, TV technique, and everyone has their own. I certainly don't think it will work for the average person. But it worked for you, and that's good!


Actually the TV technique in fact works. I can break it down for you and tell you how it in fact works.

I found this out: A person can sleep with their eyes open through any stage of sleep except REM. I've seen this feat accomplished a few times also in public

If this is true, then if one was to keep their body completely still, and only have their eyes open while watching the TV, it wouldn't matter whether thoughts were being artificially or naturally processed (your thoughts are being processed with the TV because you are syncing your thoughts with the TV), your mind will believe you are going through a stage of sleep, and will therefore treat it that way, so you should have no problem watching the TV. By tricking your body into thinking you are in a stage of sleep, your body and mind should attempt to go into REM sleep while watching the TV.
If you don't believe me, try it for yourself.


Nesgirl, I don't have a tv. I don't have a couch. I have a computer in my bedroom, but if my parents ever found out that I was watching a movie instead of getting enough sleep to wake up early the next morning for chores (farm chores) they would definitely not approve. Does this method work with the sound turned all the way down?

The idea of stealthily slipping pass the first four stages of sleep seems promising, but how long does it take to get to the REM stage?
...You think that's air that you're breathing?

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KungFuPanther
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Re: Why some people CAN'T lucid dream.

Postby KungFuPanther » 16 Jul 2014 15:57

HAGART wrote:You have every right to feel frustrated.
I know my family doesn't lucid dream and probably never will in a million years, but the difference is, they don't care. But you do, and I understand your frustration.

For me it occurred naturally, progressing over time due to my simple love for dreaming and remembering them. I think that brain plasticity and habit forming is what did it. However, it didn't really kick off until I was 31 and I'm 34 now. I don't know how old you are, but I am guessing you're a lot younger than 31. When I was in my teens I didn't lucid dream at all, so if you want to compare yourself to others and feel frustrated, keep in mind, when I was your age, it didn't happen for me either. (However I never tried either, and the root of all disappointment is expectation). Imagine where you will be when you are my age.... you may actually be better than me!



Yeah, I'm just really trying to forget about them. Do you know of any good hiding spots for a dream journal? XD

I'm 16, but started when I was 14. I'm going to try and stop comparing myself to others because in everything I do I always think that everyone else is better than me. Which, you know, you are, but you had to get there, and you did it.

Trying to invent my new hybrid method from the most promising existing methods, I'm going to use this forum to track my progress. I would be much obliged if you followed along and gave me your thoughts on it. You see, my new theory is based upon a certain idea, If you want to lucid dream, than every night is a success. The hard part is finding those successes, no matter how small they may be. I think I'll start with last night.

Oh, and, nice profile pic by the way.
...You think that's air that you're breathing?

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KungFuPanther
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Re: Why some people CAN'T lucid dream.

Postby KungFuPanther » 16 Jul 2014 16:04

HAGART wrote:I'm open minded and I'll try it myself before shooting it down.

TV certainly puts us in a trance, hypnotizes us, which make us open to suggestion which is already half asleep, so there is an element of truth to it. I'm not going to knock it down right away. I'm humble enough to know that I cannot dismiss an idea without first trying it myself. And what does KungfuPanther have to lose?

All good suggestions and let them decide.


TV does have a way of doing that sometimes. Unless it's a George Lucas movie. :lol:

My sister is taking me to the theater today to watch Dawn of the Planet of the Apes (exhausting title). So, seeing that I hardly ever go to the theater and each time I do it's a historic occasion, I'll probably have dreams about a dystopic monkey future tonight. And Commissioner Gordon.

You're definitely right, I don't have much to loose. But I'm not quite sure I understand this method. Nesgirl, all you are supposed to do is just lie there really still? Should you try to keep your eyes open or what?
...You think that's air that you're breathing?

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KungFuPanther
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Re: Why some people CAN'T lucid dream.

Postby KungFuPanther » 16 Jul 2014 16:06

Karin wrote:
How long have you been lucid dreaming and how long did it take you?

My first lucid dream happened last year, in my mid-40's. I must say though that I was never interested in lucid dreams until this happened.

However, I became very interested in understanding consciousness two years ago, which is when I started meditating. But the idea of lucid dream sounded like a waste of time to me, like something one would do for entertainment, and entertainment is not something I seek. What I really crave for is learning (though if it's fun at the same time it certainly is a plus). But when I had that first spontaneous lucid dream, even though it was very short, it did strike me that there could be a lot to learn about consciousness through lucid dreams. I know this must be obvious to everyone here, but it wasn't to me... :roll:


It's alright, we all have our blonde moments, those just make our epiphanies seem greater :lol:

What method did you use? And does meditation really help? How do you do it?
...You think that's air that you're breathing?

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KungFuPanther
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Re: Why some people CAN'T lucid dream.

Postby KungFuPanther » 16 Jul 2014 16:17

Alright, so, in an attempt to use this as a secondary dream journal and log my progress in fighting this condition, I'm going to post every dream I have here until I actually reach my goal (one lucid dream every night).

Last night, 7/15/2014. 9:30 PM. I focus my eyes on the computer's clock and tell myself, wake up at two, wake up at two. I then climb into bed and perform the SSILD cycles, but only to relax and put myself to sleep faster. I then wake up very wearily at 2:44, probably because I went to bed to late. (note to self, adjust wake up time depending upon starting time of sleep) I use the restroom, and forget whatever dream I was in previously. Climbing back into bed, I begin cycling, but keep slipping into sleep after the second cycle, so I just keep starting from the beginning. Last night's sleep was restless, but in the morning I remember I had a dream very clearly. I was talking to my brother, and he had referred to a movie by the wrong title. Normally I would have just accepted this, but I stopped listening to him and focused my mind on trying to pull a memory from the real world, and finally corrected him on the title. I still didn't realize I was dreaming though, but still. Progress. Sort of.

And then something about tapioca pudding. And Captain America.

Tonight I shall calculate for the estimated time it takes me to fall asleep and add five hours from there. I'm trying to keep my "getting up outa bed" time down below five minutes, as I wake up very easily and have a hard time returning to sleep.
...You think that's air that you're breathing?

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Karin
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Re: Why some people CAN'T lucid dream.

Postby Karin » 16 Jul 2014 17:10

It's alright, we all have our blonde moments, those just make our epiphanies seem greater :lol:

What method did you use? And does meditation really help? How do you do it?


OMG, how did you know I am a blonde? :D :D

I did not use any methods. I was dreaming about walking in a park, and out of the blue, I knew I was dreaming. My first two LDs were like that.

Then for my third LD, it happened differently, but again, I did not use any methods, it just happened. I woke up at 3:00am, and could not go back to sleep. Normally I get upset about this, because it usually takes me two hours to go back to sleep. This time however, I thought that instead of tossing and turning, I could just take this opportunity to meditate. So I did so, and after a while (probably an hour or so, not sure), I heard a loud buzzing in my head, then felt my body vibrate, and then very quickly, in the blink of an eye, without me having any idea that this would happen, I found myself in a lucid dream environment. There was almost no discontinuity in consciousness: one moment I am in my bed meditating, wondering what these strange sensations are, the next moment I am somewhere else, with no body, yet I know without a doubt I am in a lucid dream (not sure how I know this, but I do). Later on, I found out while googling it that what I had experience was a WILD.

Then after that, all I am doing now is wish for another one, and then whenever during the night I feel those vibration sensations, or hear a loud buzzing in my head, I get ready for it to happen. I have not mastered the whole process, far from it.

Now about meditation: in the middle of the night, or before falling asleep in the evening, I just lie in bed, with earplugs in and in the dark (I always sleep with earplugs), and I focus my attention on my awareness. There is a part of us that is just witnessing our present experience, and that's the part I focus on. This part is outside of thoughts, but whenever a thought arises in our mind, it is easy for the awareness to 'get lost in the thought' (your mind is wandering). When that happens, I just redirect my focus on my basic awareness. I know this might not make any sense, but that's how I do it. If it does not make sense, then you can also focus your attention on your breath, and whenever you notice that your mind has been wandering (thinking of something else), then just gently redirect your focus on your breath. The key is not to get irritated with yourself when your mind wanders. Practice, practice, that's what counts. My mind still wanders a lot. In addition, usually once a day during the day, when I can, I also use 45 minutes of binaural beats. The ones I use are 'Inner States' by Patty Ray Avalon, and 'Blue' or 'Portal', by Sacred Acoustics.

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nesgirl
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Re: Why some people CAN'T lucid dream.

Postby nesgirl » 16 Jul 2014 17:17

KungFuPanther wrote:
nesgirl wrote:
HAGART wrote:I never heard of nesgirl's, TV technique, and everyone has their own. I certainly don't think it will work for the average person. But it worked for you, and that's good!


Actually the TV technique in fact works. I can break it down for you and tell you how it in fact works.

I found this out: A person can sleep with their eyes open through any stage of sleep except REM. I've seen this feat accomplished a few times also in public

If this is true, then if one was to keep their body completely still, and only have their eyes open while watching the TV, it wouldn't matter whether thoughts were being artificially or naturally processed (your thoughts are being processed with the TV because you are syncing your thoughts with the TV), your mind will believe you are going through a stage of sleep, and will therefore treat it that way, so you should have no problem watching the TV. By tricking your body into thinking you are in a stage of sleep, your body and mind should attempt to go into REM sleep while watching the TV.
If you don't believe me, try it for yourself.


Nesgirl, I don't have a tv. I don't have a couch. I have a computer in my bedroom, but if my parents ever found out that I was watching a movie instead of getting enough sleep to wake up early the next morning for chores (farm chores) they would definitely not approve. Does this method work with the sound turned all the way down?

The idea of stealthily slipping pass the first four stages of sleep seems promising, but how long does it take to get to the REM stage?


The sound being minimal is fine.
Actually my parents didn't even care about that when I was a little kid, they were just mad at me for keeping them up until 1AM when they and the siblings were hearing me run around the house and up the and down the stairs with terrible insomnia like crazy and had to find a solution for that, and putting me into bed didn't help, as I would get up and start running around the house yet again. As I said, I wasn't even willing to try to Lucid Dream when I was that age (didn't even know that existed). They just put me in front of the TV on my back, and I became so fascinated by it I kept my body still and ignored it, and hours later after losing focus of the TV, I thought of running around the house again, but found my body was asleep and I could not move because of it, and gave in. Well at least for the 45-60 minutes of REM I went through, though after that, I went back to running around the house yet again, and the process repeated itself. I was quite the little rebel back then.

You're definitely right, I don't have much to loose. But I'm not quite sure I understand this method. Nesgirl, all you are supposed to do is just lie there really still? Should you try to keep your eyes open or what?


Yes that's the idea. Basically you are keeping your eyes focused on the TV, but very still. You need to, prop your pillows just right so you can see. Then focus your eyes so that you can see, and keep your body still, not moving it for anything. After a while you may suddenly without reason if you are still feeling awake and alert see a bit of a blur of the TV, and will automatically lose focus of the TV. If you are still feeling awake and you see that happen, attempt to move your body at this point and see what happens. If you cannot move, then conclude you have fallen asleep, repeat this to yourself over and over again and prepare yourself. If you can move, perform a reality check (I would recommend the clock)

I would more or less recommend this as an early morning method, and unless like you are willing to rigorously exercise to induce body fatigue until then, you might want to wake yourself up and try that.

Because in fact it is possible to sleep with your eyes open during the other stages of sleep, your body and mind should interpret this as sleeping while you are watching TV if you keep your body perfectly still. As for the watching TV, as long as you keep your mind completely focused on the TV, your body will think of this as random thoughts/daydreams rushing through your head, as sometimes that can very well happen during a stage of sleep, although they are a bit artificial. Your eyes will automatically shut when you go into REM, so don't fret.
Goodbye forever...
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KungFuPanther
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Re: Why some people CAN'T lucid dream.

Postby KungFuPanther » 16 Jul 2014 17:52

Karin wrote:I did not use any methods. I was dreaming about walking in a park, and out of the blue, I knew I was dreaming. My first two LDs were like that.

Then for my third LD, it happened differently, but again, I did not use any methods, it just happened. I woke up at 3:00am, and could not go back to sleep. Normally I get upset about this, because it usually takes me two hours to go back to sleep. This time however, I thought that instead of tossing and turning, I could just take this opportunity to meditate. So I did so, and after a while (probably an hour or so, not sure), I heard a loud buzzing in my head, then felt my body vibrate, and then very quickly, in the blink of an eye, without me having any idea that this would happen, I found myself in a lucid dream environment. There was almost no discontinuity in consciousness: one moment I am in my bed meditating, wondering what these strange sensations are, the next moment I am somewhere else, with no body, yet I know without a doubt I am in a lucid dream (not sure how I know this, but I do). Later on, I found out while googling it that what I had experience was a WILD.

Then after that, all I am doing now is wish for another one, and then whenever during the night I feel those vibration sensations, or hear a loud buzzing in my head, I get ready for it to happen. I have not mastered the whole process, far from it.

Now about meditation: in the middle of the night, or before falling asleep in the evening, I just lie in bed, with earplugs in and in the dark (I always sleep with earplugs), and I focus my attention on my awareness. There is a part of us that is just witnessing our present experience, and that's the part I focus on. This part is outside of thoughts, but whenever a thought arises in our mind, it is easy for the awareness to 'get lost in the thought' (your mind is wandering). When that happens, I just redirect my focus on my basic awareness. I know this might not make any sense, but that's how I do it. If it does not make sense, then you can also focus your attention on your breath, and whenever you notice that your mind has been wandering (thinking of something else), then just gently redirect your focus on your breath. The key is not to get irritated with yourself when your mind wanders. Practice, practice, that's what counts. My mind still wanders a lot. In addition, usually once a day during the day, when I can, I also use 45 minutes of binaural beats. The ones I use are 'Inner States' by Patty Ray Avalon, and 'Blue' or 'Portal', by Sacred Acoustics.


Hmm.. so you got started through spontaneous induction... lucky son of JUST KIDDING lol

So, the SSILD method I am using is like your meditation? Here's what I do

I focus on the darkness behind my eyelids, or try to pay attention to any hynagogic activity(if there is any) for about thirty seconds. NOTE: thirty second time period is only for personal reference, I do not actually count.

I then focus on what I can hear, either a ringing sound or just the fan in my room (or sometimes breathing) for about thirty seconds.

Finally, I focus on the tactile sensations in my body for about thirty seconds, whether they are from the blankets, my breathing, or strange "tingling" sensations of my nerves shutting down.

I repeat this process about 4 times, with 6 "micro cycles" before this, each step lasting only about four seconds.

Do bi-neural beats actually work? I have tried them before, but not when I'm sleeping, and some of them I find quite disturbing...
...You think that's air that you're breathing?

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