Anyone ever have an out-of-body experience?

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Peter
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Re: Anyone ever have an out-of-body experience?

Postby Peter » 08 Aug 2014 06:37

This old debate again and my normal response as follows,

I have had thousands of lucid dreams and I have had many hundreds of OBE's.
They are different techniques for the same event and that is an entry into the inner world of our minds.
If I observe the darkness in my eyes when attempting a WILD then I directly enter a lucid dream
If I practice what I call body awareness when attempting a WILD then I quietly slip out of my physical body and will be standing in my room, then I can walk away, decide what I want and be in a lucid dream.

This is my experience and like all of this it can only ever be a description of what I think is happening.
I have used a ZEO sleep recorder and it shows the same pattern for both a lucid dream and an OBE and that is direct entry to REM from being awake.

And no I don't have the recordings anymore but If I dig the ZEO out of the drawer and it still works then I will just do it all again.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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nawick
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Re: Anyone ever have an out-of-body experience?

Postby nawick » 08 Aug 2014 14:57

I'm new here, and I dont want to hijack this thread.
however
We had a reunion at a place know as "Beth's Uncle's Farm". Beautiful Wisconsin pastures surrounded by woods. Wildlife, but no cattle any more. Still standing was a barn and an outhouse.
That morning I was checking the place out. There were some really nice oak and maple trees on it. A little mosquito pond. Lots of green pasture. I noticed two kids swinging on a rope swing down by the barn and wondered who belonged to them. When we lined up for lunch, I noticed the swing wasn't there. I asked Beth (who's uncle owned the farm) if the swing had broke. "what swing" she asked. I told her I saw two kids swinging on the rope swing hanging from the tree by the barn. Beth asked if it was a boy and a girl about 10 years old.
When I said yes, she told me that those were two children that had died in the house fire in the 1920s, and that other people had seen them by the pond. The two were happy we were visiting.

So when you say
Summerlander said - Give up the ghost! Literally...


you want me to start lying to myself. I do not lie. I will not try to wish away things that really happened.

You seem to have some closed minded view that if YOU didn't experience it, it "doesn't exist"

Summerlander, you are free to have whatever Faith that makes you feel comfortable.
Please have the courtesy to not force yours on other people.
By the way, just because some people do not share your Faith does not mean we are "overcome with delusion"
"If you believe that you can or if you believe that you can't - you are right." - Henry Ford.

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Summerlander
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Re: Anyone ever have an out-of-body experience?

Postby Summerlander » 08 Aug 2014 19:36

I didn't call anyone a liar, my friend. I have just pointed out time and again that over a century of neuroscience has shown us that everything about our minds is excisable by brain damage or malfunction - including consciousness. People can lose the power of speech, vision, memory, conceptual comprehension and recognition (amongst many other qualities), and yet expect to recognise their deceased loved ones, communicate with them, and perceive everything with great clarity in death (when the brain is completely destroyed or has ceased to function completely). It sounds to me like this belief in the afterlife is a product of wishful thinking - don't you think? :)

It is not about following what makes me feel comfortable either (if anything, I think the other way around is the case). I'm just following evidence and reason. It is possible that you saw two (living) children who had set up some kind of swing and then removed it when they were done playing. When you told Beth, she immediately made an association that led to the assumption that they were the ghosts of children who had died long ago. The truth is that Beth did not see what you saw at the time. The truth is that we are all susceptible to illusions and bias. The truth is that perhaps you didn't even see what you think you saw (as you remember it). False memory and confabulations are often begotten by feedback from others (in your case, Beth). The truth of what you really saw could have been obnubilated by the fallacious reasoning of those who heard your narrative. Too quick to jump to conclusions for my liking.

And why is it that those who believe in such nonsense, or are so sure about its veracity, fail to prove or convince the rest of the world? Because, not only there is no evidence for what they claim (none), but they also don't have a good reason for entertaining the idea other than their own fear of death. They don't want real death to be true. (Something that Sigmund Freud picked up on back in his day.) :geek:

If spirits existed, and they controlled living bodies, we would have discovered them by now. Quantum physicists can detect Higgs bosons responsible for mass, and yet, something as hypothetical as a soul, which grossly controls a huge bundle of molecules such as our bodies, cannot be found. Hmmm... :roll:

If it is non-physical, as it is sometimes described, it cannot possibly interact with the physical and therefore cannot control bodies, i.e. we have no soul. If it controls bodies, then it is part of physical reality as a force and therefore detectable - more so than subatomic particles! And yet, nothing is found and it never will. I hope I have made myself crystal clear as to why dualism is not just absurd to me, but also untenable as a little ratiocination reveals. The Cartesian view is outdated and the absurdity of the soul should be obvious to everyone in this day and age. :D

It is true that people do experience strange things. I have experienced them myself, y'know! :mrgreen: But you will find that there are more mundane explanations out there and they tend to always check out. Never jump to conclusions based on hearsay, superstition, and belief from irrationality. ;)
Last edited by Summerlander on 08 Aug 2014 19:44, edited 1 time in total.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Peter
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Re: Anyone ever have an out-of-body experience?

Postby Peter » 08 Aug 2014 19:42

Ok lads, you have both made strong points and its time to agree to disagree and keep this interesting discussion on topic and off emotions. I don't want other members to stop posting because of a difference of opinion that gets out of hand

Peter
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Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Summerlander
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Re: Anyone ever have an out-of-body experience?

Postby Summerlander » 08 Aug 2014 19:45

No problem, I'm finished with this topic anyway. :D
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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nawick
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Re: Anyone ever have an out-of-body experience?

Postby nawick » 08 Aug 2014 20:17

I don't want other members to stop posting because of a difference of opinion that gets out of hand

Hey, like I said, I'm new here. Didn't know.
I don't think I have even posted 15 times yet.
however
I realize that some people really have never seen the Sidhe, or Ghosts or Demons or Angels. Some have never seen the Shadow People or the Sobek or even those "Ascended Master" jerks in the dream world.
And I can understand if they say "Cool. Personally I have never witnessed this"
I didn't realize that when someone speaks the truth others would call them Delusional and/or stating falsehoods.
I know I would never twist other peoples experiences to try and fit them into my Faith system using boilerplate rationalizations.

Thank you. I now understand that this is done here.
Who am I to disagree?
"If you believe that you can or if you believe that you can't - you are right." - Henry Ford.

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Peter
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Anyone ever have an out-of-body experience?

Postby Peter » 08 Aug 2014 21:17

Awesome and cheers to both of you. We need differing opinions and beliefs and facts so don't stop putting them forward, the hard bit is at times to get that others don't see it the same way

Cheers
Peter
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Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Summerlander
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Re: Anyone ever have an out-of-body experience?

Postby Summerlander » 08 Aug 2014 21:20

You can disagree with the majority and back up your argument with good reason if it means a lot to you to convince the rest of us of your certainty, nawick. If you provide me with what I might deem compelling evidence, you may just sway me to conclude that there might be something there after all. ;)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

Snaggle
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Re: Anyone ever have an out-of-body experience?

Postby Snaggle » 09 Aug 2014 12:46

nawick wrote:
I don't want other members to stop posting because of a difference of opinion that gets out of hand

Hey, like I said, I'm new here. Didn't know.
I don't think I have even posted 15 times yet.
however
I realize that some people really have never seen the Sidhe, or Ghosts or Demons or Angels. Some have never seen the Shadow People or the Sobek or even those "Ascended Master" jerks in the dream world.
And I can understand if they say "Cool. Personally I have never witnessed this"
I didn't realize that when someone speaks the truth others would call them Delusional and/or stating falsehoods.
I know I would never twist other peoples experiences to try and fit them into my Faith system using boilerplate rationalizations.

Thank you. I now understand that this is done here.
Who am I to disagree?


What do you mean by "the Sobek"? is the Sobek the same as the ancient Eqyptian croc headed god?

Summerland

It is possible that you saw two (living) children who had set up some kind of swing and then removed it when they were done playing. When you told Beth, she immediately made an association that led to the assumption that they were the ghosts of children who had died long ago. The truth is that Beth did not see what you saw at the time. The truth is that we are all susceptible to illusions and bias. The truth is that perhaps you didn't even see what you think you saw (as you remember it). False memory and confabulations are often begotten by feedback from others (in your case, Beth). The truth of what you really saw could have been obnubilated by the fallacious reasoning of those who heard your narrative. Too quick to jump to conclusions for my liking.


Kids setting up a robe swing and taking it down when done is much more farfetched than ghosts. Robe swings are hard to put up and the ideamthat kids who put one up would take it down would happen less than 1 time per billion ;)
"There is only one God and his name is Death.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel

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nawick
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Re: Anyone ever have an out-of-body experience?

Postby nawick » 09 Aug 2014 17:39

What do you mean by "the Sobek"? is the Sobek the same as the ancient Eqyptian croc headed god?

It's just what some people call them. They dont really have the heads of crocodile. They are reptilian. They walk on two legs and wear clothing. Their heads are more like Kimoto Dragons or gecko. There was a video game that depicted them perfectly, but I DONT remember which one.
We are beneath their notice. It is like we can see them but they cant see us, or we are just too inconsequential.
Kids setting up a robe swing and taking it down when done is much more farfetched than ghosts. Robe swings are hard to put up and the ideamthat kids who put one up would take it down would happen less than 1 time per billion ;)

Yeah, I had to laugh at that one to. This tree was like 3 feet across and then lowest branch was as high as the barn roof. But the extent people will rationalize never ceases to amaze.
Last edited by nawick on 10 Aug 2014 16:52, edited 1 time in total.
"If you believe that you can or if you believe that you can't - you are right." - Henry Ford.


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