Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Discuss paranormal activity linked with sleep and dreams, such as out of body experiences, astral projection and psychic dreams.
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Karin
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby Karin » 17 Aug 2014 22:54

HAGART wrote:... Are there places, like an Astral Plane, that exist beyond our own subjective experience, and can be verified by more than one person. If you describe the place to someone, can they answer, "Yea, I've been there too! I etched my name on a tree and you can go and find it there." Or you might meet a dream character who is not just in your mind, but also visits other people as if it has a life of it's own. ...


Fascinating thread! You're right, defining 'real' is key.

I heard somewhere 'All realities are illusions, and all illusions are real', or something like that...

I think one issue comes from taking physical reality as the standard for what is real. Maybe there are other 'real places' out there that don't follow the same rules as physical reality at all. Maybe there are realities where if I etch my name in a tree and tell you to go find it there, you will go and you will find it there, but only because I told you so. Maybe anyone else who does not know I etched that name in that tree would never see it.

Some talk about 'collective fields of consciousness', that can be experienced in a similar way by many people of similar beliefs. That makes some sense to me, and it's one of my goals to try to get out of my 'personal field of consciousness' during lucid dreams, and try to visit collective fields that I am interested in. Maybe a shared dream between two people would be one step closer to that, a mini-collective creation between two people.

Concerning creatures in the astral having a life of their own, maybe those 'exist' in the collective unconscious of humanity, if such a thing exists? Maybe there are some cultural archetypes, that one might encounter depending on their culture, time in history, etc... Some talk about 'resonance', meaning that I will not encounter something that at a consciousness level I don't resonate with? Again, the laws 'out there' might not be the same at all as physical laws, and maybe something 'out there' cannot hurt me unless I believe it can. That's what I chose to believe until proven otherwise, though I admit that my personal experience in those matters is very limited.

Speaking about personal experience, I can only mention two very basic ones: first one, in my second LD, I found myself in that place I called a void, very odd and disorienting, with no reference points, no ups and downs, just darkness with pale flashing lights here and there, and then I saw that exact description of this place in Frederick Aardema's book and he called it 'the void' too. That's not something I had ever heard of before. Second experience: in my third LD, I had a very strong desire and a very strong intent to meet another consciousness. I did instantly end up in a very odd place that looked just like TV static noise. I could not go beyond. I did share that story here and there, and recently I found another person who experienced the exact same thing when she intended to meet someone else in her LD, even though in her case she was able to push through this 'TV static plane' and make it to her target. Interestingly, she posted her story BEFORE I had my experience, on a private site which I had no access to, and she used the same words I did, also describing it as 'TV static noise'. Maybe that's a type of barrier one encounters when trying to exit the personal field? Those two examples don't prove anything, and I am sure there are tons of more interesting stories out there, but as a beginner, they do intrigue me and certainly motivate me to keep exploring.

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HAGART
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby HAGART » 18 Aug 2014 01:06

Karin wrote:I think one issue comes from taking physical reality as the standard for what is real.


We don't know anything exists unless we compare it to something.
We compare waking life to dreams, and make a distinction. But it's not black and white; It's only shades of gray. (That sounds dirty.... damn you best seller!) :oops:
Even Einstein himself would tell you that physics is skewed relative to the observer.

I've heard of 'The Void' before and had my own experience. I was in a lucid dream, and saw my reflection in a mirror and walked right in, breaking the glass, and was in a black void space, no color, no sense of 'up or down'. There was no relativity. When awake, we see in 3D and have a 'line of horizon'. We have a sense of up and down. But pure consciousness doesn't need that, only our bodies, relative to physical reality so we could hunt and survive and procreate and evolve.

In a lucid dream, we don't need a body, so why do I usually have one? It's because I am so use to it, and letting go is very hard! It's proprioception: the perception of body in RELATION to other parts. (Again, it's just relativity).

But consciousness is not physical. The brain is, but not the mind. There's no physical barriers in the mind, apart from the ones we create ourselves, so what's stopping us?
We all have the wool pulled over our eyes, but turtleneck sweaters are so damn comfortable.

illumy
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby illumy » 18 Aug 2014 01:37

HAGART wrote:I don't know if I'm right or wrong, and it doesn't matter. You can do your own Google search of course. It's just fun to talk about this stuff. :D


Wow, you could not have nailed that statement any better!

Especially this topic, no room what so ever for "heated debates", as all of this deals with ones, "personal experience".

Nobody can say with undisputed truth what is, and what isn't, but the topic is absolutely filled with lush possibility.

As to the question posed about whether or not two people (can/have) ever visited the same virtual plane, as in etching your name on a tree, or something to that fashion, for someone else to go see, Dr Thomas Campbell, (http://www.my-big-toe.com/), claims to have definitive experimental proof of just that.

Apparently in the infancy stages of Dr Campbell's research and studies into Astral Travel, in a totally observed, and monitored environment, Dr Campbell, and another assistant, Dennis Mennerich, were both placed in two separate, sound proof rooms. Each of them had a microphone, to record what they were saying, and a (mediator/overseer) of the experiment, Robert Monroe, founder of The Monroe Institute, (http://www.monroeinstitute.org/), presided over the entire experiment.

Both men were then instructed to begin their Astral attempts. And again, apparently, the two guys met up in the Astral, as the recordings, when played back after the experiment had finished, show a definite, "synchronization" of their conversations to one another.

An excerpt from Dr Campbells book detailing this:

http://books.google.com/books?id=RYHtBPiZVgsC&pg=PA84&dq=%22trip+%28experience%29+in+the+nonphysical+together%22&hl=en&ei=750HTtqMKsvEswbvp9TbDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22trip%20%28experience%29%20in%20the%20nonphysical%20together%22&f=false

This kind of experimentation is absolutely fascinating.

patches
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby patches » 18 Aug 2014 15:10

There's a series of interviews with an expert on sleep paralysis from penn state medical school...it's a ten part series, but here, in part 5, he addresses the theory that jungian archetypes (among other things) explains the "frightening presence" during sleep paralysis...for those who are interested (especially ppl who experience sleep paralysis), I highly recommend watching the whole series of interviews. In any case, I'm looking forward to hearing your opinion...
http://youtu.be/huchL8YPp8Y

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Peter
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby Peter » 18 Aug 2014 15:29

Interesting - cheers
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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HAGART
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby HAGART » 18 Aug 2014 15:50

I watched part-5, and that guy would be a great addition to this discussion. :D

He says that it can't be due to Carl Jung's theory of archetypes because all the accounts are very specific (about 30 different ones), and they follow rules in a specific order. He says it's due to cultural programming, but I disagree. I believe (I use that word on purpose, because this is all belief), that it's nature, not nurture, and that our brains are like a machine, and self will is an illusion, and we are just 'moist robots' as Scott Adams would call us. (Creator of Dilbert). We are born with basic blue prints, a foundation of knowledge, that we build on afterward during the nurturing process. (Living life). So perhaps all those experiences are pre-programmed in all of us, and are triggered under the right conditions regardless of cultural programming. The right condition being an 'altered state of consciousness'.

So what is 'altered'? It goes back to relativity and we must compare it to whatever a 'normal' state of consciousness is, and yet it fluctuates without us realizing it, all day long, every day. ;)

Even he admits, he doesn't know, and I don't know either, but that's my attempt at a rebuttal, and yet it was mostly an "agree-ttal". ;) :lol:

I keep using the phrase, "I try to find the normal in the paranormal" Or explain the natural in the supernatural. I feel like Agent Mulder. ;) If we could explain these paranormal and supernatural phenomenons, then they would simply be normal and natural and part of our everyday lexicon and part of our version of truth and reality. Much like back in the day, it was unheard of to think the earth was round, when all conventional ideas knew, JUST KNEW, that is was indeed flat!

I think there's another paradigm shift on it's way. 8-)
We all have the wool pulled over our eyes, but turtleneck sweaters are so damn comfortable.

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Summerlander
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby Summerlander » 19 Aug 2014 00:40

Monroe and Campbell's experiment was never replicated successfully and they have failed to recreate it themselves let alone prove what they alleged to have happened and justify why we should take their biased interpretation at face value. Dualism is dead and we have evidence continuously weighing in favour of physicalism..

Spirits? Bah! I don't believe in any of that shit! :-D

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

Jackson
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby Jackson » 19 Aug 2014 03:22

Make this topic into a poll...

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illumy
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby illumy » 19 Aug 2014 23:30

Summerlander wrote:Spirits? Bah! I don't believe in any of that shit! :-D


How apt then, that someone of your disheartening demeanor be lurking in a Lucid Dreaming based forum.

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Summerlander
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Re: Are Astral Projections and "Spirit Entities" Real?

Postby Summerlander » 20 Aug 2014 02:08

What does lucid dreaming have to do with spirits? I enjoy lucid dreaming and I believe it is all in my a head, i.e. a product of my brain. Why is that so disheartening to you?

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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