Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

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LucidityMaster
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby LucidityMaster » 17 Sep 2014 01:27

Didn't I just say that it's as close to a fact as possible that astral projection doesn't exist? As a matter of fact, i do the equivalent to what religious people term 'astral projection'. It's a form of lucid dreaming where you perceive yourself abandoning your physical body.

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Summerlander
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby Summerlander » 17 Sep 2014 01:59

Astral projection is just a belief-centric interpretation. Lucid dreaming describes the phenomenon for what it really is: a dream in which you are lucid. I don't care how LucidityMaster has put it or if people are slightly offended by his choice of words. He is right. Astral projection is another human invention from wishful thinking. It has religious connotations and implies a certainty in the afterlife with absolutely no evidence to substantiate the claim. As Freud would put it, such beliefs are born out of a deep-seated fear of death.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Peter
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby Peter » 17 Sep 2014 02:02

no not really, all we know is based on assumptions or current knowledge. It only takes one event or discovery to change what is known and science that you seem so fond of is really a very open minded system. Each new discovery is a change and then becomes fact until the next one comes along.
Also in changing sides for the sake of a thought experiment can only lead to balance and no doubt will only reinforce current views anyway.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Peter
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby Peter » 17 Sep 2014 02:06

when you take away the words what are you doing, are you doing anything and if so what then is the result.

If a memory forms of the event is it real or not (the memory)
I dont like the term but thats not important at all. What is interesting is the event that is taking place and some detail on your experiences would be nice on that one
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Summerlander
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby Summerlander » 17 Sep 2014 02:17

Nah. I don't think the concept of a soul is even feasible, Peter. If there is one thing that the annals of neuroscience has taught us, it is that the self is nowhere to be found, and that brain damage or malfunction can excise any faculty of the mind. Even the living become unconscious sometimes and there are noticeable changes in the brain.

It is true that science is constantly revising, and some theories can be falsified through experimentation. But it is also true that theories like evolution and gravity let their factors speak for themselves and have stood the test of time. Such theories are so rich as to be regarded as facts.

Sorry to say but the dualist, or vitalist, hypothesis is pretty dead. (No pun intended.) The Cartesian theatre has also been falsified and there is no little homunculus inside the pineal. Amazing work has also been done on the neural correlates of consciousness.

Not only is the concept of a soul outdated, it is also absurd in that it shoots itself in the foot for how can something non-physical interact with the physical in order to control such a thing as the human body(?) If it controls physical bodies, then it is part of physical reality and should be detectable. So far, nothing, and it looks highly unlikely that anything will ever be found. (They finds the Higgs at the LHC and yet they cannot find the ghost in the machine?)

I rest my case...

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Goldkoron
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby Goldkoron » 17 Sep 2014 02:28

Do you believe there is any possible feasible way of telepathic communication between bodies for shared dreaming Summerlander?
Do a reality check

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Peter
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby Peter » 17 Sep 2014 02:32

LOL - I wasn't going there and I agree with that lot but think if you take away the world astral travel and the beliefs that people have and use the term of lucid dreaming or exploring a dreamscape then what determines that it is real or not real.
I currently think its all in our head in some way and thats fine but it is in our head and that has some form of reality attached. How much I dont know but you cant dismiss the experience.

And the post asks for the difference between astral travel and ld, well they need to exist before there can be a difference and I think they are just belief based terms and the same thing or the same nothing
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Summerlander
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby Summerlander » 17 Sep 2014 02:56

Goldkoron: No.

But I think a Mindnet may become a reality in the future. Aid by technology, of course...

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

LucidityMaster
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby LucidityMaster » 17 Sep 2014 03:11

Peter wrote:It only takes one event or discovery to change what is known and science that you seem so fond of is really a very open minded system.
.

'Very open minded system' - I believe you have the wrong definition of open minded, Peter.

Open-minded doesn't mean you completely lose your sense of logic and ignore the strong scientific evidence that disproves the existence of a soul.

The definition of open minded isn't the complete ignorance of scientific facts.

I, along with the vast majority of scientists, know the evidence against astral projection is so strong, we don't need to wait for a miraculous event to prove us wrong.

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Peter
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby Peter » 17 Sep 2014 03:21

you are missing the complete point and this is to allow for all possibilities, as simple as that.

They may not exist, no problem but its so simple to say "they may be right and then just think"

Why is that not open minded, what you accept or believe is fine
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born


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