Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Discuss paranormal activity linked with sleep and dreams, such as out of body experiences, astral projection and psychic dreams.
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HAGART
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby HAGART » 13 Sep 2014 12:34

Sorry about that.... I thought I should think more before I post, but I saved it and can paste it.

I was expecting a good argument, Summerlander.
But you were just ranting!

How would I describe what you just replied... how do I put it..... oh yea...
Summerlander wrote:Cock and bull! :-D


I'm just messing with ya ;) I love a good debate sometimes, and I know you do to, and just being argumentative and using your own quote back at you for fun. :D I must admit I like the, word "teleology", and had to look that up, and explains many debates here on this forum. That does explain my side, but it still doesn't mean it's absurd. You missed the mark, and didn't persuade me at all. I'm extremely open minded and really want someone to prove me wrong. Or even right for that matter.

If we have no free will (and that's my stand point to at the moment) then isn't is possible for a giant super computer to predict our every move? What else is comparable to that? The brain of course!

So it's not unfathomable that we can predict the future to some extent?

I hope my ideas resonate more than my wording, but isn't there at least a little bit of truth to what I'm saying? If not, I can take it, and it's all just words, and concepts and nothing is personal. 8-) You can slam a few jokes at me too if it's in good taste, because I admit I did the same!

But if I hear a definite answer from anyone I will change my mind at a heartbeat!

EDIT: What I wanted to condense it down to was that you are right about it being all teleological. And many debates on this forum are. I was going to re-phrase it in two lines:

You were ranting.
But I was rambling.
;)

I'll pick this up again when I'm back online. I'm not getting off that easy am I.... :D
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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HAGART
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby HAGART » 13 Sep 2014 14:48

Summerlander wrote:...organisms in nature using unpredictable time in evolutionarily stable strategies in order to get ahead of competitors and survive. Unpredictability is a good weapon...


You have a very good point. It made me think of something. All of life on Earth and the whole ecosystem is based on predators and prey. After millions, billions of years, none of the prey have evolved to predict their predator's exact moves before they happen. Why is that? You'd think after a while one would, and if it did, it certainly would not die off. It would eventually be the only being left and end up eating themselves. In an orderly manner if they were intelligent enough to prolong their species and evolve to anywhere close to a human's, although meager, level of self-awareness and intelligence. I don't even know if that is possible either and sounds far-fetched.

So I agree. Evolution has kept us stupid. At best we can only predict general behavior, not exact movement.

But what if, we have no predators anymore? What will occupy our mind after that? What will fill that void of potential that was once pre-occupied? Maybe there is room to use our minds as a super-computer to it's fullest potential that we have never been granted before, and just don't realize it. Then we can naturally predict things with much more accuracy! Not just general behavior, but more exact movements. And I'm not even talking about 20 years in the future, but just 3 seconds. Is it not possible? Does it defy physics? It's already feasible to predict the weather. Why isn't the whole universe, and us, part of the same machine, flowing in predictable ways?

When in sleep, without any other things to pre-occupy us, perhaps a precognitive dream does not defy any laws of physics, as long as we know the present data.

I'm just rambling again, and even I can see some holes in this, but felt like saying something.
I expect a ranting, to refute my admitted rambling. :mrgreen:
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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erichsa
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby erichsa » 13 Sep 2014 18:35

I expect a ranting, to refute my admitted rambling. :mrgreen:

For me, Mankind is asleep, but can wake up. 1957 I got a book out of the library: P.D. Ouspensky The Fourth Way, based on the teaching of G.I.Gurdjieff. I managed from time to time to wake up, but otherwise sleep along with most of the rest of us. For me I do knew that I am asleep, and as long as I live I will try as often as I remember to be more awake. I am tolerant of other peoples point of view, but don't push it down my throat. "IN MY OPINION" It is after all our opinion we are voicing, which we acquired one way or the other.
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Summerlander
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby Summerlander » 15 Sep 2014 00:38

There are many circumstantial factors to be considered in staying ahead of your opponent in an arms race. Sometimes a little luck is involved when a predator successfully delivers a coup de grace to its prey. Cheetahs, for instance, developed speed in order to hunt and escape larger predators. But antelopes and hares also have an evolutionary propensity for speed as a result of natural selection. The fastest prey tend to survive and propagate their genes. As you can see, they don't consciously develop a speed strategy. What we observe has a Darwinian explanation.

This phenomenon arises simply because of environmental pressures and the consequential survival of the species. Sometimes the best thing to do is to adopt a surreptitious method of catching prey. Take them by surprise! If prey are too absorbed in the act of grazing, their guard will be minimal. Predators soon learn that heads down on the grass mean easy meals. They are the best times to hunt.

However, mutations can occur in prey which may cause some to be more erratic with their timing. These "mutants" would go on to propagate their genes and their broods would already be one step ahead of the enemy in the tactic of evasion. This could ensure their survival for some time until predators finally evolve counteraction. Cycles like these can last for millions of years until one side goes extinct.

In our case, evolution hasn't favoured us as much as it could. In fact, homo sapiens came very close to extinction once. But beneficial discoveries were made, we learned a few things (like fire warding off most animals), and managed to remain extant. Intelligence and self-awareness aren't universal prerequisites for survival though. What I mean to say is that such traits aren't deliberately sought by evolution. As for our predators, we don't really have any that poses an immediate or significant threat to our ecological niche other than ourselves! Nations battle one another; civilised society worries about criminals and sociopaths; humankind constantly fights to contain or prevent outbreaks in order to avoid pandemics.

Accurately predicting events comes with the kind of foreknowledge begotten by observation and the scientific study of reality. The scientific method is already what we developed in order to make predictions and acquire an idea, however slight at present, of how the universe works. But remember: predictability isn't precognition. From what we observe on Earth today, we could predict that on the 25th December 3000, Alaska will see a sunny day. But if in ten years time we detect an asteroid due to collide with our planet the year before (2999), creating untold destruction and disrupting the entire meteoric system, you can kiss that predicted Alaskan sunshine goodbye.

And then we'd be forced to devise a new prognosis: the asteroidal impact portends the darkening of our skies and the annihilation of earthly life. (And no amount of evolution could have prepared any organism from such catastrophe or any type of nuclear assault for that matter.)

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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HAGART
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby HAGART » 15 Sep 2014 04:47

You went off tangent again there Summerlander, but it's a good read and this is just a fun talk.

Summerlander wrote:predictability isn't precognition

I agree, and that's where I went astray. For prediction to work we need current data to extrapolate. Precognition, on the other hand, is knowing something without ever having knowledge of it before in the first place.
There's a big difference, and I was changing the definition.

I noticed another problem with my reasoning. I am not trying to prove precognition exists, but merely trying to point out that it can't be ruled out completely. Science is not a set of concrete facts, but a lense we use to explain reality in a logical manner. The reality was always there to begin with, before we ever even saw it, and everyone agrees that there is still much unknown.

So anyone can use what we know thus far, after careful study through the magnifying glass of science, to base ideas on and reach conclusions. Yet I can simply say, there is still more yet to be seen. That's the problem. Both sides are right.

With my logic, I can tell you that given the magnitude of space, that another planet supports life, and one such species out there in reality is akin to a mono-horned, Equus Ferus! Am I wrong?... No. But I'm not right either! ;)
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby Summerlander » 15 Sep 2014 23:28

Stop fucking with my mind! :-D

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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nessa11
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby nessa11 » 21 Sep 2014 05:07

Kailyn.Spears wrote:Since as far back as I can remember I have had dreams where I could see upcoming events in my normal everyday life. Most are mundane things like dreaming that I am standing in my bed room thinking about something and then I start to feel an emotion and then days weeks even months later it happens exactly as I dreamt it would. Same place, same train of thought, same exact emotion. However through my life I have had a few very distinct times where my precognition actually altered or changed my life. Let me start with a little biography so you understand more about me.
I grew up in a southern, christian, republican, household. I went to Sunday school every week and read my Bible daily. I don't remember when it started happening but I do remember thinking that I couldn't tell anyone because they would think I was crazy or worse didn't believe in God. The church I grew up at taught that dreaming the future (among other things) was witchcraft and that it didn't actually happen it was just something people did to con others out of their money. So when I started having these dreams, I instinctively kept them to myself; that is until recently. When I was younger, I believed that my precognition dreams were a gift from God and that they would lead me down the path in life that I am supposed to take. Now granted, most of my dreams are about thoughts and feelings and mundane actions I preform others are significantly different in that I can manipulate the present based on what I saw happen in my precog dream, sort of like the old disney show, "That's So Raven".
The most significant of these instances was November 14th and 15th 2006 when I was 12. I had the biggest crush on this guy but I knew one of my friends liked him too. I had a dream that I was standing outside the band hall by a certain pole and she came up to me and said, "He said no." I knew that she was talking about the guy that we both had a crush on and I deducted that she had asked him out and he had rejected her. When I awoke from my dream I schemed to recreate this dream so that it would make my chances of dating him greater and get her to stop flirting with him (yes i realize I was a crafty child back then). So at lunch I talked her up to it. She said she would ask but that I had to go wait at the band hall and as I have described before, that is where I was waiting for her so I agreed to this measure. I left the cafeteria and I went and waited by the pole that I remembered standing by in my dream. When she came to me, her answer was exactly what I had envisioned, "He said no." Lying through my teeth I began to console her saying I was sorry and that she could find a better guy but then she stopped me. "He said no to *you*." I said what? She replied, "I thought you meant to ask him out for you. He said no to dating you." Well obviously I was crushed by this news so later that day in an effort to save face and maybe salvage a friendship and perhaps a hope of dating him, I called him. I explained how that wasn't supposed to happen and that I liked him but thought that she was going to ask him out for herself. Long story short, me and this guy started dating that night and we dated for a year and a half, to this day my longest relationship.
After that dream they kind of subsided, when I had them it was mundane things that weren't even worth mentioning. However, recently the activity has been occurring more and more frequently. I believe that my control over my precognitive dreams is strengthening. What I want validation on is, is there anyone that has had a precognitive dream while half awake??? Earlier today, after not sleeping for 24 hours, I passed out on the couch and while I was asleep I started having a precognitive dream that my friend would call me and say something to me. However, while I was having this dream, he actually did call me! So I was dreaming the future mere seconds before it actually happened! At the end of my pre cog dream my friend said something, I honestly don't remember what it was and I wish I did. Shortly thereafter, he actually said what I had just dreamt and to that I replied yea, I know, you just said that. To which he replied, "no I didn't. what are you talking about?" then I, now being fairly awake, explained to him that i was just dreaming about what he would say and that i had anticipated him saying what he said. Basically the whole experience reminded me of the Oracle on the Matrix when she says "Oh and don't worry about the vase." and then Neo breaks it. I want to know if anyone else out there has had an experience like this and if you know how, how do i harness that power to manipulate my dreams like the dream that lead me to dating my ex and this experience here? I don't do anything out of the ordinary to get these dreams, they just happen at random. If there a way to control and manipulate them? Any answers are welcome! Really this whole post is to validate that there are others out there, hopefully more powerful and better able to answer my questions, like myself.


That's awesome you had those experiences! I've had so many of those experiences that I couldn't even count, I wish there were more people to talk to about those things but most people I know don't understand them and think it's crazy. Also they tend to happen with situations that don't seem to have much significance. One example was a few months ago a family friend was looking for apartments. I knew she was looking but I wasn't expecting her to move for a few months. About a few weeks after she told me she was looking I had this random dream in the morning; in it I saw her standing in a new apartment full of boxes, talking to someone helping her unpack. When I woke up I woke up to a text message, "coincidentally" it was her texting me how she was happy that that morning she finally found an apartment to move into

One example of a precognition that did had some significance was when I was driving, there were no other cars on the road. In my mind's eye I saw a car zoom through a stoplight. I tried to ignore it but it kept repeating through my mind so dramatically that I slowed way down to about 10 miles under the speed limit. No less than a few minutes after I slowed, a car came speeding through the stop sign at the intersection I was passing. If I hadn't slowed down as much as I did before I got to that intersection that car could have easily hit me.

It is frustrating at times because besides the one with the car, most of the precognitions I get whether through a dream or while I'm awake don't seem to have any importance behind them, and they always come at random. So unfortunately I don't have any advice on how to increase them or control them in any way because I'm still trying to figure out that myself. I just thought I would share a few of my experiences with you because I've been experiencing something similar!

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HAGART
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby HAGART » 21 Sep 2014 06:11

Thank you, nessa11 for ignoring our banter and getting back to the original post. I can't say I've had precognitive dreams before, but have had some Deja Vu moments, and two of them, after I started to lucid dream frequently, gave me an overwhelming feeling that I had dreamed it before. That was two years ago, and only twice, and it was nothing majorly life changing; Just a strong feeling. I don't know the reason, but it shouldn't be hidden, and unspoken, and swept under the rug in fear of those that will call you, or me, crazy.

Even Robert Waggoner, a respected lucid dreamer and published author has had two precognitive moments in his life that I know of. (I never read his books, but saw an interview. I'm a pretty good judge of character and I don't think he's lying.)

Thanks for sharing your story and personal experiences. If we want to explain possible reasons for it and theories, we should all start a new topic.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby Summerlander » 24 Sep 2014 17:54

I had a thread where I posted several OOBEs that seemed to show ESP. Must look for it... 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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nesgirl
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby nesgirl » 25 Sep 2014 02:52

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Last edited by nesgirl on 21 May 2015 05:08, edited 1 time in total.
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