Lucid Dreamers and God

For those who wish to discuss the purely scientific aspects of sleep and dreams, including new research and future technologies.

Have you ever tried to communicate with God in the phase state (LD/OOBE/AP)?

Yes, and I was successful
3
7%
Yes, but nothing happened
2
4%
Yes, but what was encountered was a product of my mind
5
11%
No, but I am willing to try
21
47%
No, and I'm reluctant to try out of fear
0
No votes
No, and I never will (I'm an atheist who doesn't see any point)
14
31%
 
Total votes: 45

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Karin
Posts: 146
Joined: 13 May 2014 22:59

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby Karin » 22 Jul 2014 21:06

Cool link, thanks for sharing, Worldenterer1.

The mention of a theist meeting an atheist reminded me of something that happened to me several years ago:

I was getting my mail at my mailbox, pushing a stroller, when two young men in shirts and ties, riding bicycles, stopped by me with flyers inviting me to their church. I politely thanked them and said I was not interested. They then asked me what church I go to. Without thinking, this came out of my mouth: I do not go to any church, I am an atheist. Their reaction took me by surprise: these guys' faces turned beet-red, their eyes became round saucers, and their jaws dropped. I wasn't sure if they were going to have a heart attack right there. They were clearly shocked and had never encountered an atheist before. Their reaction would have been the same if I had just opened my coat wide and wasn't wearing anything under it.

I actually felt sorry for them and wish I had not used the word 'atheist'. I had not realized until then that some people could feel so offended or shocked by it, as if a prude turns a hotel TV on and finds that it's tuned on a porn channel.

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HAGART
Posts: 3182
Joined: 05 Jan 2012 21:09
Location: CANADA

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby HAGART » 22 Jul 2014 21:23

Well written Karin! You know what's harder than arguing for Atheism? Agnosticism.
Perhaps we just need to redefine "God". It's more of a concept than an entity.

And great video, Wordenterer1. It's so relevant and couldn't have said it better.

When I was just spewing out words earlier claiming that I am just a made of fabrication in my mind, constructed by my ego and there is a higher-self to tap into, I felt weird saying it. But now I feel more confident in it. I still have no label for my 'religion', and I'll just keep it that way. :D
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Peter
Posts: 1951
Joined: 26 May 2011 08:02
Location: New Zealand

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby Peter » 22 Jul 2014 21:51

You need one more choice,

Do you have no need to believe in god and have you so many experiences that if you did you could start many religions and so suspect some of the reasons behind them and why in the past they might have started.

So not a believer
Not a disbeliever
Happy in my own skin and no need to believe or seek
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Summerlander
Posts: 3654
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby Summerlander » 24 Jul 2014 14:45

@ Hagart:

The "higher self" concept was aired a lot in the now extinct Astral Viewers. It's redolent of the New Age movement but certainly nothing like Yahweh for sure. Whatever this concept and feeling is, which appears to root in the psyche, can be interpreted as a sort of subjective "god" by some individuals. (Your stance is cognate with Karin's.)

@ Worldenterer1:

I wholeheartedly agree where humanity's progress is concerned. An open discussion or debate on virtually every subject is a step forward. The darkmatter video was quite relevant to what Karin espouses. Thanks for sharing. :)

@ Karin:

Your view/belief strikes me as an existential derivative of the "Einsteinian religion" but the sense of awe centres mainly upon the mystery of consciousness and a profound admiration for the sense of self. (Correct me if what I gleaned from your latest post is slightly misguided.) The empyrean view that a naked awareness exists anterior to matter (also featuring in Buddhism), as well as posteriorly extant, cannot be backed by the memory of transcendental meditative states.

The reason why the unusual mental state cannot be trusted as evidence is that it may be nothing more than an illusion (or delusion?) caused by the firing of neurons. The physiological mechanism begets the conscious experience which doesn't necessarily reveal a profound truth about the nature of reality - it only shows that the aforementioned experience, which can influence one's beliefs about reality, is possible and may well be a fake epiphany.

But I am not dismissing your hypothesis completely. As a scientist you may be aware of Penrose's quantum mechanical view of consciousness and the recent neuroscientific discovery regarding quantum vibrations. Here is a link which also pertains to dreaming:

http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=14309

By the way, I am yet to see a shred of evidence for the "3D cone" in our "2D" world. ;)
Scripture was still written by people who knew less than us about the world and felt the need to fill in their noetic gaps with fantasy and wishful thinking.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

Teraku
Posts: 98
Joined: 10 May 2013 22:19

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby Teraku » 15 Sep 2014 22:25

I've never done this, and I don't see the point. If you do try to communicate and actually receive a response, who's to say it's not just a dream?

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 3654
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby Summerlander » 15 Sep 2014 23:34

And it is just a dream. And I don't see much point either. But some materialistic atheists might still be curious to see what happens when one calls out for God in a lucid dream. How would your mind tend to respond is the real question for atheists. It's okay for secular people to seek numinous experiences.

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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buildit
Posts: 491
Joined: 23 Sep 2014 04:14
Location: USA

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby buildit » 30 Sep 2014 01:32

Summerlander wrote:And it is just a dream. And I don't see much point either. But some materialistic atheists might still be curious to see what happens when one calls out for God in a lucid dream. How would your mind tend to respond is the real question for atheists. It's okay for secular people to seek numinous experiences.

[ Post made via Android ] Image


The concept of God, I think, is also tied to perception. There are a surprising number of descriptions of God in the old testament. I have always felt the true reflection of God comes from inside us. What we are and what we do reflects what is inside us as good or bad. Most know good when they experience it and also bad or evil. I have no reason or theory for the few that medically cannot conceive of such concepts.
Once in a dream did I call out to God and actually get a response. I thought it was just my own desire for an answer but the fruition of the request showed me there is something out there. Don't know if it's a bearded man in flowing white robes or an alien presence whose knowledge and abilities we can only perceive as magic but I do believe there is something and for lack of visual confirmation I call it God.
Is Lucid Dreaming the brains preparation for the next step of human evolution when we can escape the corporeal bond of our bodies?

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 3654
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby Summerlander » 30 Sep 2014 10:40

Can you describe exactly what happened in the dream where you called out to God?
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

User avatar
buildit
Posts: 491
Joined: 23 Sep 2014 04:14
Location: USA

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby buildit » 30 Sep 2014 19:26

Summerlander wrote:Can you describe exactly what happened in the dream where you called out to God?


Not really. Events are different than emotions and words can fail in these sorts of things. There are only a few times in my life when my emotions ran high enough to make me feel that way, like I was turning into just mental energy yet it was not an OBE. Body, mind were one but not corporeal. In my most powerful dreams I now take that form but it still doesn't feel the same. The two times I can think of now, one time my mind changed, the other time my Dad passed away, although it wasn't till two days later I found out that happened. :cry:

As for the content of those dreams, it's between God and I.
Is Lucid Dreaming the brains preparation for the next step of human evolution when we can escape the corporeal bond of our bodies?

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 3654
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Lucid Dreamers and God

Postby Summerlander » 30 Sep 2014 19:35

This something you call God... Do you believe it exists objectively (separate from your mind)? If so, why? And is this something intelligent and the Creator of all there is?

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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