Characterization of dreams

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buildit
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Characterization of dreams

Postby buildit » 29 Sep 2014 18:20

As a new person to discussing dreams I am still finding the terms used confusing. There seems to be a lot of blurring of the lines between the vivid, lucid and control of dreams.

For example to me a vivid dream is one that has clarity of actual vision. Like dreaming in high definition where the darkest corner of a room still has nuances that can be seen.

Meanwhile a lucid dream to me is depicted by the feeling of being there and having a free flowing mental presence like in real life. None of that I just woke up and need my coffee feeling to your thoughts.

As for control in the dream this too varies even for me. There is the subconscious in control and you make small changes or inputs of data. It seems people who can jump or glide but not fly are in this subconscious directed state. Call it level 1
Next comes the point where control is shared between the subconscious and conscious mind. The characters in the dream react independent of your direction yet can be manipulated like chess pieces at will. The construct of the environment can be changed but the logical mind wants a reason that things happen. So if you can fly your mind wants an excuse for this. It might be as simple as because my thoughts are now this powerful as to make my will real. Whatever it is there is an excuse that allows rules of nature to be bent or broken. I'll call this level 2
Last is pure and simple "Godhood". The subconscious is an observer or projector of your will. The logical mind defines everything and the simple act of wanting is enough to bend reality to make it so. You are less a part of the dream construct and more an overlord capable of seeing or experiencing the realm from inside as an avatar or from the outside as the hand of GOD sitting in Mount Olympus directing a play. The side effect is that objects are limited by your first hand knowledge about them. The subconscious takes no active roll in filling in gaps or making up information like in level 1 or 2. Level 3 AKA "God mode" is the least relaxing of the dream states to me.

I'd be interested to see / hear the interpretations of others on what I've said. To clarify this is just how I am coming to see the differences. I've yet to hear anyone specifically say, "My LD was also vivid and level 1". However, it might prove useful and edifying to defining our dream experiences to have a basis from which we define our experiences for sharing? 8-)
Is Lucid Dreaming the brains preparation for the next step of human evolution when we can escape the corporeal bond of our bodies?

dreamstudent
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Re: Characterization of dreams

Postby dreamstudent » 04 Oct 2014 01:22

I understand what your saying I like your concept of different levels of Lucid Dreaming. Other people have quantified these levels into 5 levels some into four but regardless yes I think your right it should be more clearly stated that this is vivid or it was so clear, however, I am guilty of using terms like that on this forum haha. Nice thought buildit, I always enjoy your concepts.

Snaggle
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Re: Characterization of dreams

Postby Snaggle » 04 Oct 2014 20:58

Vivid dream - all senses are fully activated and the dream seems like reality.
Lucid dream - one knows one is dreaming, has awake level: thinking; intuition and ones real memories.
Dream control - one can manipulate the content of the dream(s).
Emotional vividness - the emotions experienced in dreams are just as nuanced and intense as real life, dream characters have nuanced rounded personalities/minds that can influence one emotionally.

Stage one - one knows the above by having experienced it.

Stage two - one realizes that one can not only experience the dream lucidly; but also manipulate the content.

Stage three - one realizes that the intuition and logic are the two halves of ones consciousness and that the subconscious lies beyond the conscious mind altogether and seeks out characters that incarnate the subconscious self in dreams - most dream characters even if perfectly mentally nuanced are not part of ones subconscious.

Stage four - one mind links with one aspect of ones subconscious experiencing the full range of its: thoughts; intuition; physical sensations and emotions.

Stage five - one realizes that sometimes when entering a dream one is in a dream created by ones conscious self by incubation, at other times one is in a dream created by an aspect of ones subconscious.

Stage six - one realizes that there's more than one aspect of ones subconscious, that they all dream and one can enter the "dream library" and experience all their dreams at once and pick which aspect of ones subconscious one is going to link with.

Stage seven - one realizes that reality can be controlled too.

Stage eight- don't know; but want to find out before death.
Last edited by Snaggle on 05 Oct 2014 05:13, edited 1 time in total.
"There is only one God and his name is Death.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
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nesgirl
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Re: Characterization of dreams

Postby nesgirl » 04 Oct 2014 22:42

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 21 May 2015 04:55, edited 1 time in total.
Goodbye forever...
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buildit
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Re: Characterization of dreams

Postby buildit » 05 Oct 2014 00:16

Snaggle wrote:Stage seven - one realizes that reality can be controlled too.
Stage eight- don't know; but want to find out before death.

Or:
Stage 7 One sees reality for what the subconscious has been trying to understand all along. Reality is exposed.

Stage 8 I have a theory but not ready to expose it yet. :D



So did you develop these stages yourself or are they someone else's work? :geek: I'm interested in why the founder of these ideas chose the perspective of interpretation that they did.
Is Lucid Dreaming the brains preparation for the next step of human evolution when we can escape the corporeal bond of our bodies?

Snaggle
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Re: Characterization of dreams

Postby Snaggle » 05 Oct 2014 05:17

buildit wrote:
Snaggle wrote:Stage seven - one realizes that reality can be controlled too.
Stage eight- don't know; but want to find out before death.


So did you develop these stages yourself or are they someone else's work? :geek: I'm interested in why the founder of these ideas chose the perspective of interpretation that they did.


Yes, they're mine, but I had help on 5-6 by my dream or spirit guide. I would conclude that he's not real except for one experience which still has me wondering.
"There is only one God and his name is Death.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel

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buildit
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Re: Characterization of dreams

Postby buildit » 05 Oct 2014 05:45

Snaggle wrote:Yes, they're mine, but I had help on 5-6 by my dream or spirit guide. I would conclude that he's not real except for one experience which still has me wondering.



Your stage three definition is curious to me. What means of intuition are you referencing to determine it is a form of consciousness? Because you seem to contradict yourself in saying that the conscious mind " seeks out characters that incarnate the subconscious self in dreams" and then say, "most dream characters even if perfectly mentally nuanced are not part of ones subconscious." You appear to imply a third party? :?


"Stage five - one realizes that sometimes when entering a dream one is in a dream created by ones conscious self by incubation" what sort of incubation is developing the dream? Then again after this you seem to indicate the subconscious to be made of more than one "psyche" as if it is possessed of multiple personalities. For clarity I would disagree, but as this is an introspective list it might reflect some aspect of your own mind.
Is Lucid Dreaming the brains preparation for the next step of human evolution when we can escape the corporeal bond of our bodies?

Snaggle
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Re: Characterization of dreams

Postby Snaggle » 05 Oct 2014 08:45

buildit wrote:
Snaggle wrote:Yes, they're mine, but I had help on 5-6 by my dream or spirit guide. I would conclude that he's not real except for one experience which still has me wondering.



Your stage three definition is curious to me. What means of intuition are you referencing to determine it is a form of consciousness? Because you seem to contradict yourself in saying that the conscious mind " seeks out characters that incarnate the subconscious self in dreams" and then say, "most dream characters even if perfectly mentally nuanced are not part of ones subconscious." You appear to imply a third party? :?


As intuition is judgement, insight and creativity it's very much part of the conscious mind. Dream characters as sort of third party characters, they're created by the mind, but once created are independent of it. A tree or a hill in a dream are neither ones conscious or subconscious mind , dream character also are separate from their creator, excluding those that are avatars of it.

"Stage five - one realizes that sometimes when entering a dream one is in a dream created by ones conscious self by incubation" what sort of incubation is developing the dream? Then again after this you seem to indicate the subconscious to be made of more than one "psyche" as if it is possessed of multiple personalities. For clarity I would disagree, but as this is an introspective list it might reflect some aspect of your own mind.


Any experience, thought or desire can incubate a dream. Their is only one personality, one can tell avatars of the subconscious in dreams because they have the same personality one does. The mind is like a giant multicored computer, all the cores active: experiencing; perceiving; observing; imagining; analysing and feeling independently and also together at the same time. Ones conscious mind is too linked to the brain and to the illusion it's the mind or self, even though it's just a tiny part of the mind (far less than 1%). Uniting the conscious mind with the subconscious is a wild experience. Unlike Summerland, I know that every human being is a great creation (whether of Nature, God or the Gods does not matter.
"There is only one God and his name is Death.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel

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buildit
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Re: Characterization of dreams

Postby buildit » 05 Oct 2014 13:52

Snaggle wrote:As intuition is judgement, insight and creativity it's very much part of the conscious mind. Dream characters as sort of third party characters, they're created by the mind, but once created are independent of it.


Thank you for the clarifications. Do you really feel you DC's are independent of your subconscious control once created?
Is Lucid Dreaming the brains preparation for the next step of human evolution when we can escape the corporeal bond of our bodies?

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Peter
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Re: Characterization of dreams

Postby Peter » 05 Oct 2014 20:35

Do you really feel you DC's are independent of your subconscious control once created?


I will jump in here. I suspect that our SC is independent of our normal thought processes, its us but another part that thinks away and can appear to have independent thought. When you get the "aha" moments in normal life its the SC coming in with an answer and in the lucid dreams it could be an interaction in a graphic way with the SC.
So I think its a conversation with self but another aspect of self. The organic computer within, capable of another stream of thought and capable of expressing if asked
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born


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