Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 05 Oct 2014 22:01

nesgirl wrote:Actually that is a complete hoax in terms of religious beliefs. Even if you are say anti-romantic or a virgin, if you are a Multimedia Designer, video gamer, or a Lucid Dreamer, and you kill your characters, to them it counts as murder, and you are automatically going to be condemned to hades. Also if you have mood swings, you are considered either possessed or a demon. So obviously I wouldn't consider that 100% true.


Conscious dreams (cannot really say "lucid" if the dreamer thinks they are visits to spirit realms) are probably the source of much of the nonsense expressed in scripture. Today, to lucid dream is to dance with the Devil by many Christians and many other monotheists alike. :)

nesgirl wrote:When I saw that they passed that law in Utah on the news, I was actually in complete surprise as were most countries and America themselves, considering Utah is probably the most religious place in America. If it takes the environment to reduce the birth rate, then maybe we should attempt to alter the environment. Also the environment would need to be altered to reduce the death rate as well.


What exactly is the law that was passed? Can you elaborate? :|

nesgirl wrote:Even such mutations don't happen too often, and when they do we often find cures as well as immunizations for such strains pretty quickly (like with the swine flu).


Then your argument against sexuality is self-defeating. Why not work on tackling all STDs using immunisations and antidotes instead of genetically eradicating the emergence of reproductive organs in embryology? And what if a great war in the future buries all knowledge of cloning. Do you know how long it takes to recover from a dark age? Imagine one where the last humans on Earth are unable to reproduce. Bye bye, human race. Enter extinction! 8-)

nesgirl wrote:As far as us becoming extinct, yes that is going to eventually happen one day anyway, and while it could be through war, nuclear explosion, or through disease, I am actually thinking it will more than likely happen in 1 of 2 different ways. The first way is when our sun turns into a red giant, burning everything on earth to a crisp. If it fails to do that, it'll turn into a black hole, and suck the whole earth in, squishing and killing everything and everyone. The second way is the Ultimate fate of the Universe, and there are several theories on how the universe is going to end.


The sun does not have enough mass to turn into a black hole. But it will almost certainly turn into a red giant. You may want to check out the following link:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/may/26/future-planet-earth

And here's a great quote by the illustrious Martin Rees:

"Most educated people are aware that we're the outcome of nearly 4 billion years of Darwinian selection, but many tend to think that humans are somehow the culmination. Our sun, however, is less than halfway through its lifespan. It will not be humans who watch the sun's demise, 6 billion years from now. Any creatures that then exist will be as different from us as we are from bacteria or amoebae."

nesgirl wrote:Hey why not pursue those dreams of having a career then if that's what you really want? If you really want something, then why not go after it? As you said, you don't live forever (actually if you did live forever, you'd be so darn miserable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvMiz0-nPxs )


I agree. Eternal consciousness = hell. As counterintuitive as this may seem, death really is deliverance. Life is the problem.

nesgirl wrote:You are one of very few who doesn't struggle financially with their marriage when first starting off, however, many people actually do struggle with this, especially students. You know how many people who marry and don't have a financial plan or jobs end up on the streets or homeless shelters because of this? There was in fact a story on the news about financial struggles in marriages and showing that 30% of people prefer to remain anti-romantic because they are worried about financial trouble.


I believe you. And I've heard it and this is the best and strongest argument you will ever make in this debate. I applaud you for that. But here is a challenge: Instead of jettisoning romance, marriage, and sex, why not study harmonious relationships like mine? You know, see what works...

nesgirl wrote:And having to worry about paying for my classes (which are VERY expensive), I do have to take that into consideration. In general, most students who pay to take classes or go to college/universities don't have a lot of money, and usually have to have a side job to pay for it. Greg was likely one of these. Getting married is also very expensive, especially for a student.


Take out a loan, pay it back when you can. I didn't do this, by the way. and marriages don't have to be expensive. Mine cost less than a grand. You could also go to the registry office and get it over and done with. No huge celebrations. 8-)

nesgirl wrote:Unless you count the animals, there is no such thing as loyalty. Sooner or later, that someone will eventually betray you. Which is why I will never trust partnership.


It really is a dog-eat-dog world. Animals are not as innocent as you may think. I could give you some real, seemingly inhumane instances in the animal kingdom.

nesgirl wrote:Oh and you've got to see this YouTube video, this asexual guy actually managed to succeed in getting himself neutered: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99t8Jrwj-sI


I abhor mutilation. But each one to their own. If that makes him happy, so be it. :o

This brings me to the following news:

Mahmoud Abbas, the leader of Fatah (a political movement founded 65 years ago), appeared to have made amends with Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal in Cairo recently. Abbas is Arafat's successor. Both men founded the organisation whose power declined since losing the elections to Hamas. After violent clashes, Fatah was driven out of the Gaza Strip.

It seems that Palestinians favour Islamic Hamas over the now secular Fatah who in 1993 recognised Israel's right to exist. Prior to this, Fatah led somewhat of a more ignoble existence in the days when Israeli civilians suffered with attacks from suicide bombers.

Perhaps you also need to recognise the sexual person's right to exist, nesgirl... :twisted:

@ Snaggle:

To also assume that Obama is "serving" a New World Order, or suggest some silly conspiracy theory, is simply wrong. But you got one thing right: the president is indeed just another populist neocon. And yes, America has turned into a flipping Christian nation by the looks of it. :mrgreen:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby nesgirl » 06 Oct 2014 01:51

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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 07 Oct 2014 15:06

nesgirl wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/utah-gay-marriage/


It is disgusting that the matter about gay rights is only being settled recently in Utah. They are behind and they are not the only ones.


nesgirl wrote:Unfortunately because of the Hippocratic oath, we aren't allowed to be spayed or neutered. Believe me I tried. We can get rid of all the STDs, but we don't need to reproduce either. As I said earlier, that puts too much strain on the female. And believe it or not, if a female never were to reproduce in her lifetime, she would live a heck of a lot longer. Cloning would allow the female to focus on other things that were necessary.


The Hippocratic oath is over two millennia old and it is there as a precautionary measure. Even if cloning becomes the norm as a way of propagating genes, by the way, someone still has to rear the offspring. The parents still have to focus on the young.

nesgirl wrote:Oh and believe me, if there was a dark war, and I was the "last female" on earth, and there was one other guy on earth, I would still be anti-romantic and would be telling that guy to either straighten out, or to take a hike. I would then spend part of my life working on a way to clone myself and immunizations, multiplying myself by cloning myself (I would succeed, as I can easily figure things out, as I would rather be on the titanic or cess cruise ship than resort to romance), and getting the guy to clone himself through that. We could even spice it up by mixing our DNA through the cloning and create unique clones. Then we'd have more. Now we have a purple flag on the earth and cloning rules the earth. And there is no need to reproduce, because I DON'T want to, and neither do the clones, and we just keep cloning ourselves. Even after he and I are gone, our clones rule an anti-romantic world.


What if your cloning experiments went wrong? What if you succeeded but the human product was destined to have a short lifespan where adulthood is not reached and there is not enough time for the clone to understand genetics? Don't you think your best bet would be to just have sex with the guy? This way you wouldn't have to rack your brain trying to figure out the successful bio-mechanics of agamogenesis. even if you gave cloning a shot, you would not be able to rule out sex as a contingency plan. Otherwise, what else do you have?

nesgirl wrote:There are very few relationships like yours, I hear very few. I read more relationships that end with financial issues, betrayal, abuse, or even have the husband/wife killing the other spouse, the rest of the family, and sometimes themselves. Also how do I know that maybe within 5-20 years, your relationship will actually remain that way? I've seen relationships last about 35 years, and they also end bitterly as well. My childhood next door neighbor was betrayed after a relationship of 30 years. It was horrible.


I'd like to think that me and my wife are reasonable enough to be a good match and work together as a unit for many years to come. If for some reason, after so many years, we decided to split, it would probably be on good terms and we'd come to an understanding. We'd still be able to say, "We had a good run," or "We had some great times" and we would always have something special in common: the children. She will always be the mother of my children. ;)

nesgirl wrote:Taking out a loan is a VERY bad idea. Because many students find they cannot pay back the loan, and they have to declare bankruptcy because of it. I never take out loans. I work a job to pay for my classes. Like many students, if I can't afford to take a class that particular semester, I will take the semester off until I have enough in my budget to be able to pay for the semester. Many students go with this plan, and end up not having any financial trouble or debt in the end.


That is probably the best plan. 8-)

nesgirl wrote:As far as Greg goes...Have fun living in the homeless shelters Greg and Emma! You just ruined your lives. And there is no privacy.


Okay. Maybe they would be wise to slow down, focus on their careers first. And then... get married! :mrgreen:


nesgirl wrote:Nothing is better than having a cat or a dog sleep with you. Or having a cat curled up on your lap or kneading you while you are watching TV or on the computer.


Ahem... speak for yourself. This is very subjective. :mrgreen:

nesgirl wrote:You can talk to your cat or your dog at any time without fear of being criticized or argued against, and they will simply smile back, or they might even talk back in their own language.


I'm assuming you are using the words "smile" and "language" metaphorically, right? Cats and dogs don't smile back. They also don't have a language. This is simply a typical anthropological interpretation of their behaviour based on wishful thinking that disregards the truth about their ethology. They are indifferent to your ramblings. They do not really smile (they are not human and they have taken a different evolutionary path).

They are not capable of understanding what you say and cannot form opinions of their own to criticise or disagree. You are merely a reliable source of food and shelter to them. If they could think, have language, and self-awareness, it would probably go something like this: "This human...good...I get food...burglar hurting my human...bad." :lol:

nesgirl wrote:I would think you would at least have gotten a bit of a laugh out of that. Actually you told me to Lucid Dream about a deity, you didn't tell me which one. And promoting anti-romance on their butts/abdomins was a bonus. Then on the citizens they tried to rule over, which they quickly adopted after their deities ran away.


LOL! I'll have to take a closer look at that one! :D

Here is something that will be more relevant to the topic which will also relate to what you've said above:

The Islamic State could soon take over the city of Kobane. Turkey has tanks stationed near the hills on the border with Syria. Kurds say the time for Americans to strike and cooperate with them is now. They could defeat the Islamic State if they act now. Zeina Khodr reports from Beirut, on Aljazeera, that Iran will supply military equipment to the Lebanese army for the first time so that these can effectively combat ISIL-affiliated groups near the Syrian border.

There are also weapons being supplied to the Shia group Hezbollah who is present in the area. The Lebanese are also fighting against the Nusra Front (rebel force). So far only the U.S. has supplied the Lebanese army with weapons. Kurdish forces in Iraq are reclaiming some territory. The Diyala province is in their control. 8-)

Go Kurdistan! In London, Kurds have been accused of being just as bad as IS. But they forget that hundreds of EDL members took to the streets ready to fight when Lee Rigby was murdered. What would they do if they were Kurds in the precarious situation of Iraq and Syria? Exactly! Protect their families by either fighting or running away! There is no option of just sitting idly by while the Islamic state ransack your town. :twisted:

I watched a film starring George Clooney and Matt Damon today. It's called "Syriana." It depicts the oil interests of the United States in failed states of the Middle East. It also shows young Muslims being told about the "new faith" that must spread. These young boys are trained to become suicide bombers. They are indoctrinated into believing in the absolution of Islam. They are urged to remain virgins because fornication is a sin. They are told that this life means nothing and that the real one comes after death. All they have to do is take part in Jihad as soldiers of God. The reward to these sex-starved boys is the promise of virgins in a hedonistic heaven.

Virgins are being used for their Jihadist cause. Virgins are easily persuaded. They rush to carry out suicide-homicide attacks. How does that make you feel, nesgirl? Would you rather pick Allah over Eros? 8-)

You want female genital mutilation? Islam can remedy that. It has it all! Infibulation might be a more primitive way of preventing copulation but it is one of the methods that they employ without having to study genetics and having to devise a form of agamogenetic engineering. They seem to be pretty good at decapitating infidels who led sex lives though!

If they could come up with a genetic solution, the irony they would fail to see is this: they would be undoing God's work (according to their interpretation) and would be improving it in their eyes (despite excising the sin of fornication once and for all, the sin of blasphemy would be committed for how could they know better than their Lord?) :roll:

In the eyes of God, one can never do the right thing. :twisted:

Here is a video showing Alawites, regarded by ISIS as "kafirs," displeased with dictator Bashar al-Assad's sinking ship: http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2014/10/03/For-first-time-Syria-s-Alawites-protest-against-the-regime.html

This is Hillary Clinton in a public critique of President Obama:

“The failure to help build up a credible fighting force of the people who were the originators of the protests against Assad—there were Islamists, there were secularists, there was everything in the middle—the failure to do that left a big vacuum, which the jihadists have now filled."
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby nesgirl » 07 Oct 2014 21:58

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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 08 Oct 2014 11:06

But the survival and evolution of our species would then depend upon selecting genes that favour a thirst for knowledge and problem-solving and making sure that information about cloning and agamogenesis does not get lost. You'd have a lot to figure out at the expert level. Spaying and neutering, or even the eradication of meiosis via the genetic conception of an apomictic biology, could still spell out extinction for the human race should a failure occur in the impartation of scientific information to the clone. :geek:

And when we look at sex we realise how much more effective, regular, and reliable it is in reproduction and propagation of various genetic combinations than the arduous method of ensuring that the correct syllabus for genetic engineering survives in its original form and is passed on from generation to generation. The latter has a high probability of accumulating errors! By no means am I condemning the research and use of cloning and genetic engineering. I would in fact encourage all studies provided that we keep what we currently use as a contingency plan in case all else fails. If you and the last male happened to fail in your quest for perfect cloning, you could always fall back to coitus should you wish humankind to remain extant. :idea:

Also, think realistically about the variety of genetic combinations that we could lose by producing sexless clones as a replacement for the original, meiotic homo sapiens. The clone would be a replica of you and you alone. Then there is the science of monoclonal replication which you probably would not be able to properly test in your lifetime. Hypothetically speaking, what if copying from a third generation replica cannot be done successfully (without errors) using Nesgirl Genetics? What if such hurdle demands a revolutionary discovery that your descendants might not be able to achieve precisely because one of the errors denotes diminished lifespans? :shock:

Your dead ringer filiation would have to vouch for the continuation of your scientific legacy as well as progress in the field of cloning. Meanwhile, sexual congress proves far more prolific (even when it fails one can try again) in the bliss of ignorance throughout the ages. You also mention the last man having something in common with you: scientific interest. But what if he is not interested in science? What if it bores him or he just can't get into it? He might not be the fatherly type either (not family material) and he will only help to save the human race as far as sexual intercourse. :|

Now, you suggested that I don't understand animals but I think you are the one who refuses to really see the reasons behind their behaviour. I have actually had many pets during my childhood (mostly dogs) and even had a cat a couple of years ago which was looked after and loved by my children. I used to think like you as a child, even as a teenager. But I am sorry to say that I am an adult now and I am far more knowledgeable than ever before. As it happens, I have a penchant for biology, evolution, and ethology. I no longer let human bias and schmaltzy interpretations (or pseudo-explanations) get in the way of objective reality. Try a book about ethology and you will have many myths about animals dispelled. ;)

About your lucid dream: your utopia is a dystopia for me. I would rather live in planet Islam, where sexual intercourse still occurs, than a world where asexual anti-romantics rule. But then again, this is a heterosexual male's perspective. In a world where I am forced to be a Muslim, I'd probably be allowed to have several wives... :mrgreen:

Speaking of Islam, here are two links more pertinent to the topic. The first is an open letter to moderate Muslims which shows why they are really not helping with the ISIS situation. The second exposes actor Ben Affleck as an idiot on the matter. Bad actor, bad director, bad philanthropist, but he may make a good, lying, demagogic, populist politician one day. He vouches for the dumb word "Islamophobia" and labels any criticism of Islam as "racist." The fool...

An open letter to moderate Muslims:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/an-open-letter-to-moderat_b_5930764.html

Can Liberalism be saved from itself blog containing Ben Affleck's faux pas:
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/can-liberalism-be-saved-from-itself
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby nesgirl » 08 Oct 2014 21:40

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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 14 Oct 2014 20:55

nesgirl wrote:Good thing I would have years to spend on it. I would be spending the rest of my life at that point learning how to create knowledge in my clones and perfecting the DNA in the clones in the process.


How can you be so sure that you have years to spend on it though? You never know when the grim reaper comes knocking! :twisted:

But I will concede something in your favour. The future of our species could entirely depend upon your clone factory and not necessarily the clones themselves. It's like, as Dawkins once pointed out in his masterpiece "The Selfish Gene," the death of a single sterile worker bee being no more serious to its genes than is the shedding of a leaf in autumn to the genes of a tree. Usually, social insect colonies are huge families that descend from one single mother. You could, in effect, create the homo sapiens version of this genetic hierarchy. Your cloning factory could be the analogue of a bee hive, having a succession of reproductive queens. Most of the population, however, would be sterile and sexless.

In fact, in some termite species, the queen is swollen into a gigantic egg factory, scarcely recognisable as an insect at all. She is constantly tended by workers who groom her, feed her, and transport her ceaseless flow of eggs to the communal nurseries. But if you were to create something like this using cloning and agamogenetic engineering, you would have to watch out for eschatological religious zealots. They could accuse you of playing god, and possibly bomb your cloning facility. If you ever carry out your plan, make sure you eradicate religion. Make sure you educate your clones and provide them with a good brand of secular humanism which is always subject to improvement. No dogmas. 8-)

nesgirl wrote:Yes but also, it can come at a cost, remember how I said it was risky? If I die of childbirth and the child dies, then obviously the human species is going to go extinct anyways. Isn't it much better to perfect through science than take a gamble on my life? Also if I manage to survive, each child I have takes time off of my life, don't forget. Time I could have researching cloning.


Good point. Would you consider sexual intercourse as a last resort if you hadn't succeeded in your cloning pursuit by the time you reached the threshold of infertility due to old age? How far are you prepared to go to save the human race? Sometimes sacrifices have to be made. You'd be like Jesus. :mrgreen:

nesgirl wrote:And don't forget, I would be receiving the male's DNA as well, so I'd be able to clone him. And what if I combined the 2 forms of DNA together to create a clone then? Maybe by combining 2 different forms of DNA, there would be a chance the clone would have fewer errors, and would not be an exact clone of the 2 of us, but would in fact form into an entirely different person.


You'd be the queen, he'd be the drone. How romantic! :mrgreen:

This already happens in nature. Some insects naturally clone and use two strands of DNA. Errors, or mutations still occurred. But I guess your version of reproduction would be more controlled and more synthetic perhaps. Still, I suspect it wouldn't be foolproof. Your product would still be subject to future environmental changes and pressures which you'd have to work very hard to predict and forestall. :geek:

nesgirl wrote:If he doesn't have any interest and is one of those philanderers like you mentioned before, then I would tie him to a boat, and send him to Antarctica, but not before extracting some of his DNA. Then I would continue my research on cloning, having my trusty cats and dogs to keep me company while doing it.


Against his wishes? Wow! But animals are not as innocent as you want them to be. I would also urge to beware of those instances in which they seem to act altruistically. I'll give you the example of Thomson's gazelle. This animal apparently exerts a kind of suicidal altruism using stotting high jumps to attract predators away from their offspring.

They stot in such a way as to seemingly provoke and tease the predators. The stotting is not a signal to the other gazelles to start running. On the contrary. It is solely aimed at the predators. If the stotting gazelle could speak, it would be saying this to the predator: "Look how high I can jump, I am obviously such a fit and healthy gazelle, you can't catch me, you would be much wiser to try and catch my neighbour who is not jumping so high!"

Predators naturally tend to go for easy prey. In fact, many mammal predators tend to go for the old and the unhealthy. In the world of gazelles there is a competition to see who can jump the highest. The stotting gaze is far from being altruistic. Her motives are in fact very selfish through no fault of her own. It gets her through the day. :shock:

nesgirl wrote:There are actually other users who believe the exact same thing I do about talking to them. I was talking to one of them about it in a paranormal thread a while ago who believed the animals were in fact talking to him as well (Buildit and I were talking about how we were talking to the animals at the pet stores, then Tania was talking about talking to a Rabbit: http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15367). Called empathy. If you want to argue with us all about it in that thread, you can (I know you just love arguing with Buildit anyway).


I believe Buildit needs to have his head checked. :mrgreen:

nesgirl wrote:No it is definitely a Utopia. I would rather live in that kind of world than where we are now. Why can't such a world exist? It would make it so much easier for the females.
Hey I have a challenge for you: Why not Shape-shift yourself into a Seahorse in your next Lucid Dream? Because at least the males of THAT species certainly understand what it feels like for the females of our species


Seahorses don't understand anything and they didn't pick the course of their evolution either. They are genetically different from us due to chromosomal mutations and environmental pressures. They were shaped over time according to their ever-changing milieu. :ugeek:

Pertinent to the topic:

ISIS attacks Shiite area of Baghdad, Iraq. A roadside blast kills the police chief of the western Anbar province. Two cars had been filled with explosives. The 2nd Battalion the Yorkshire Regiment returned to Iraq after three years. It is currently teaching Kurdish forces how to use UK-supplied heavy machine guns. Meanwhile, US jets and Kurd fighters continue to strike the Islamic state in Kobani, Syria. Thousands of refugees flee to Turkey. Turkish tanks and troops remained parked along the border despite calls for them to intervene. The Islamic State holds the American aid worker Peter Kassig hostage and threatens to behead him in Syria. Australia launched its first combat mission against IS in Iraq, sending two F-18 Super Hornets.

I feel like multiculturalism here in the UK and other parts of the world has had the opposite effect of what was initially intended. Muslims are still alienated because their culture is vastly different. Politicians also seem to remain oblivious to the obvious religious source of jihadism.

One question: How long do you think this war will last? :|
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby nesgirl » 14 Oct 2014 22:04

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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 14 Oct 2014 22:31

As long as Islam has any significant foothold in the world, I'd say it will go on indefinitely, seeing as jihadism is not only about war, but also world domination. Specific parts of the Koran dictate conquest and imperialism. It explicitly beseeches its followers to reign over all persons of the earth who are not Muslim and to either convert, subjugate, or kill them--even recent apostates. People who genuinely subscribe to the true and total tenets of Islam will never stop trying to take over the world in the name of God.

In many ways, Christianity is just as bad as Islam ... it's just that Christians have long been treated to undeniable, contemporary Western ideals like democracy and have been subsequently more or less silenced. Now they just selectively ignore certain segments of the Bible and thus we get moderates and apologetics, incessant attempts at reconciling scientific findings with the Bible, and the extinction of occurrences like the Inquisition. Maybe the same thing needs to happen to Islam. It's true that there are Muslim Moderates, but they are a minority, and you never see a minority mass-persecuting people. Just doesn't happen. Plus, Muslims should by definition adhere to every word of the Koran, seeing as it is the word of God. So undoubtedly they must live by jihadism to its fullest measure.

Religious conflict is just so mind-bogglingly pathetic, and even more so that it hasn't already been eliminated from our little civilization. Any form of dogmatism (especially perpetuating from religion) should have already been absolutely ridden from all governments. All constitutions of government should be elastic, in an attempt to avoid dogmatism, but the main thing we need to do (and the slightly more controversial thing) is stop allowing things that are so obviously blatant insults in the face of reason to have any voice of influence in matters of importance. At this point, it's almost an emergency, as weapons of mass destruction are becoming increasingly more available, and thus increasingly more available to your everyday back-alley terrorist. We're going to blow ourselves off the face of the planet if we're not careful :D

I think many problems in society stem from bad parenthood, and religious opacity is no exception. The only problem with this observation is that it has to easily implementable remedy--it's just a cynical observation about the vicious cycle of ignorance that occurs as a result of our ideas about normal human reproduction. Three words you will never hear a religious parent tell their children: "Think for yourself." Perhaps it should be a law that no child have their parents' opinion forced upon them from an early age? I don't know how that would go over or how that could be regulated or enforced or implemented. Anyway, if parents stopped enforcing their own paramount, world-all opinions, the positive effective on society would be exponential.

(Sorry to just sort of randomly show up out of nowhere, having not ever engaged in this thread; it has just seemed a bit off-topic recently :) )
Well said.

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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 14 Oct 2014 23:32

deschainXIX wrote:As long as Islam has any significant foothold in the world, I'd say it will go on indefinitely, seeing as jihadism is not only about war, but also world domination. Specific parts of the Koran dictate conquest and imperialism. It explicitly beseeches its followers to reign over all persons of the earth who are not Muslim and to either convert, subjugate, or kill them--even recent apostates. People who genuinely subscribe to the true and total tenets of Islam will never stop trying to take over the world in the name of God.


Absofuckinglutely! 8-)

My thoughts exactly. I have a friend who once thought about converting to Islam because his Muslim girlfriend at the time would only marry him if he did so. As an agnostic, he told her he could only commit if he could bring himself to believe in the tenets of her faith. So he decided to give the Quran a read. We once looked at the book together and I was appalled. It is something like the Old Testament, and the bad parts of the New Testament, all the way through. Chapter after chapter it drills the idea of eternal damnation for apostates and infidels, and glorifies martyrdom and jihad. It is imperialist and totalitarian. :x

deschainXIX wrote:In many ways, Christianity is just as bad as Islam ... it's just that Christians have long been treated to undeniable, contemporary Western ideals like democracy and have been subsequently more or less silenced. Now they just selectively ignore certain segments of the Bible and thus we get moderates and apologetics, incessant attempts at reconciling scientific findings with the Bible, and the extinction of occurrences like the Inquisition. Maybe the same thing needs to happen to Islam. It's true that there are Muslim Moderates, but they are a minority, and you never see a minority mass-persecuting people. Just doesn't happen. Plus, Muslims should by definition adhere to every word of the Koran, seeing as it is the word of God. So undoubtedly they must live by jihadism to its fullest measure.


True. William Lane Craig is one of the most annoying apologists for Christianity. Moderate Muslims are not doing us any favours either. In fact, I would argue that they perpetuate the fertile ground for the dangerously devout. And then there is that hideous doctrine of deception called Taqiyya within Islam.

deschainXIX wrote:Religious conflict is just so mind-bogglingly pathetic, and even more so that it hasn't already been eliminated from our little civilization. Any form of dogmatism (especially perpetuating from religion) should have already been absolutely ridden from all governments. All constitutions of government should be elastic, in an attempt to avoid dogmatism, but the main thing we need to do (and the slightly more controversial thing) is stop allowing things that are so obviously blatant insults in the face of reason to have any voice of influence in matters of importance. At this point, it's almost an emergency, as weapons of mass destruction are becoming increasingly more available, and thus increasingly more available to your everyday back-alley terrorist. We're going to blow ourselves off the face of the planet if we're not careful :D


I fear that, too. I worry about the kind of world that my children will live in. I love them, of course, but sometimes I wish I hadn't had them. The way it's going, nesgirl can kiss her plan to save the world (in her own way) goodbye. :D

deschainXIX wrote:I think many problems in society stem from bad parenthood, and religious opacity is no exception. The only problem with this observation is that it has to easily implementable remedy--it's just a cynical observation about the vicious cycle of ignorance that occurs as a result of our ideas about normal human reproduction. Three words you will never hear a religious parent tell their children: "Think for yourself." Perhaps it should be a law that no child have their parents' opinion forced upon them from an early age? I don't know how that would go over or how that could be regulated or enforced or implemented. Anyway, if parents stopped enforcing their own paramount, world-all opinions, the positive effective on society would be exponential.


Man, this is great music to my ears! I am so glad to be reminded that there are still people like you out there besides the renowned enlightened thinkers of our day. I could literally spend a couple of hours with you in my local cafe! My mother raised me as best as she could by herself. Kudos to her. But she was told what to think once she reached the age of reason as they say. She is a Catholic. Because of that, I was also told what to think. But then I've always been inquisitive and as an adolescent I thought something was off about the world view I had been introduced to.

My mum also has Spiritualist beliefs. Once, when I was seven, I blacked out and had an episode of odd behaviour. My mother believed I was possessed by an evil spirit and performed exorcism on me. A few years later I would come across a scientific magazine that included a column pertaining to what had happened to me. It introduced a more plausible theory in that young vulnerable minds can have episodes like that when there is conflict in the household. Indeed, my parents argued everyday and were on the verge of divorce. My father was a degenerate gambler who assaulted my mother on a daily basis. For the most part of my childhood, I remembered feeling depressed and angry. When I looked at that magazine, it made sense and I knew then that science had explanatory power. :)

deschainXIX wrote:(Sorry to just sort of randomly show up out of nowhere, having not ever engaged in this thread; it has just seemed a bit off-topic recently :) )


No problem, my friend! You have contributed enormously already! It couldn't be more pertinent to the topic. You remind us of the source of the conflict in Iraq, Syria, Gaza, Yemen and other areas of the world where Islam is ripe. 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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