All Debates Summed Up! (In a cute video)

For all other chat which isn't directly related to lucid dreaming and the world of sleep and dreams.
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nesgirl
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Re: All Debates Summed Up! (In a cute video)

Postby nesgirl » 18 Oct 2014 23:35

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Last edited by nesgirl on 21 May 2015 04:29, edited 1 time in total.
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I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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Summerlander
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Re: All Debates Summed Up! (In a cute video)

Postby Summerlander » 19 Oct 2014 00:42

Now this is the kind of response I appreciate. You just repudiated my black and white claim that you must participate in romance in order to give advice and empathise with romantics when in actual fact experience can be obtauned vicariously and from this one can still form an opinion. And this is why I have learned something. Your response is unexpected and I thank you for that. Although I still disagree with your solution as well as what you think is the real problem. I don't think it's romance. I think it's people and their differences. I think ultimately is ego. The solution may lie in compromising with one another. Thus, sexuals can still lead sexual lives in a more mature, empathetic and compassionate way; and asexuals can also refrain from engaging in any sort of sexual activity or relationship if they wish.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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buildit
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Re: All Debates Summed Up! (In a cute video)

Postby buildit » 19 Oct 2014 00:56

Summerlander wrote: The solution may lie in compromising with one another. Thus, sexuals can still lead sexual lives in a more mature, empathetic and compassionate way; and asexuals can also refrain from engaging in any sort of sexual activity or relationship if they wish.

Why not just suggest people learn the difference between love and lust? ;) People say they know but it seems most are incapable of seeing that difference when they are the ones affected. :lol:
Is Lucid Dreaming the brains preparation for the next step of human evolution when we can escape the corporeal bond of our bodies?

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deschainXIX
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Re: All Debates Summed Up! (In a cute video)

Postby deschainXIX » 19 Oct 2014 01:01

The kids were arguing because they differed on two counts: the definition of terms and the perception of experience.

People have varying experiences; this we know and accept to be true. Debate is simply the collision of opposing experiences, with the hope that each member (or at least one member) and each observer comes away with a more enlightened and broadened understanding of other experiences. (This rarely happens, of course, because people far too often neglect to genuinely consider opposing viewpoints with an open open.)
It is also true that some people don't understand the terms that are subject to debate--just as the kids didn't understand that "sprinkling" and "raining" were essentially the same things, and where there were differences between the two, they were not aware.

For example, consider the debate on whether evolution is "true" or not. We still (sadly) have to debate this because most people who don't "believe" in evolution haven't fully understood the basics of evolutionary theory. I'd wager that most anti-evolutionists have never seriously sat down, with an open mind, and read literature on evolution (that was not written by another anti-evolutionist), and followed the reasoning behind it for themselves.

So, in many ways, debates are exercises in lucidity and reason. Two of the most important things we have.

However, experience is NOT everything. Your perception of reality does not dictate reality. Suppose you were to take some hallucinogenic drug that distorted your visual perception, giving everything this sort of swollen-up fish-eye effect. If a pencil was then held up in front of you, it would look enormous. But that does not change the fact that, if one were to hold a ruler up to the pencil, one would discover that the pencil is still only 6 inches long. In fact, one's personal experience shouldn't even really be a factor in serious debate--because outside of our experience there exists an irrefutable reality. Note that I said shouldn't. Debate exists solely because people do have opposing experiences, and thus don't understand that there is only one reality, and the terms of that reality are constant and uniform.

Why do we have different experiences and perceptions? Because both experience and perception are inherently warped. We are trapped within the flawed, organic confines of our brain’s capacity. If we were able to truly understand all things, without the plague of former biases and beliefs, we would surely never disagree on anything.

Here is a phenomenon that continues to occur in our modern world:
A little girl is brutally raped. After she goes home and cries to her father about the horrible ordeal, her father proceeds to cut her head off with a machete.
According to this man’s religious beliefs, killing his daughter was totally moral, warranted, and even holy--since the girl was now not a virgin without being married (Islam).
According to my beliefs, the father’s actions were immoral, unwarranted, and even insane.
But, wholly regardless of both of our experiences, it does not change the fact that it is still intrinsically wrong to behave in such a manner (hopefully all of those present can agree on that).

So, yes … perhaps debate really is a pointless, irrational affair. But humans are pointless, irrational beings--and so debate and discourse amongst one another is vitally important.
Well said.

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nesgirl
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Re: All Debates Summed Up! (In a cute video)

Postby nesgirl » 19 Oct 2014 01:02

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 21 May 2015 04:29, edited 1 time in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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Summerlander
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Re: All Debates Summed Up! (In a cute video)

Postby Summerlander » 19 Oct 2014 01:14

DeschainXIX, I love you :-*

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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nesgirl
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Re: All Debates Summed Up! (In a cute video)

Postby nesgirl » 19 Oct 2014 01:17

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 21 May 2015 04:29, edited 1 time in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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deschainXIX
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Re: All Debates Summed Up! (In a cute video)

Postby deschainXIX » 19 Oct 2014 01:18

Nesgirl, I think most people have suffered the things you mentioned. I myself experienced my parent's destructive divorce and I had the intelligence to realize that it did not occur as an inevitable consequence of romance. And if by "certain types of abuse" you mean rape or sexual abuse, it is wholly false to presume that the majority of people who embrace their sexuality are rapists. Marriage runs the risk of divorce, true. Sexuality runs the risk of rape, true. But literally every action you could possibly conceive of runs some risk. It's a risky, dangerous world. Do you advocate the prohibition of ocean-swimming for fear of shark attacks? Also, your admittance that the tragedies of romance and sexuality (that befall us all) have made you bitter and subsequently initiated your conversion to anti-romance, has only confirmed my previous statement about your ideals: that they are, at their core, purely reactionary and have no intellectual basis.
Well said.

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deschainXIX
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Re: All Debates Summed Up! (In a cute video)

Postby deschainXIX » 19 Oct 2014 01:20

Summerlander wrote:DeschainXIX, I love you :-*


:mrgreen: Likewise
Well said.

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Summerlander
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Re: All Debates Summed Up! (In a cute video)

Postby Summerlander » 19 Oct 2014 01:36

Yeah, she saw the comment. She likes deschainXIX, too. And don't worry. We are not rapists. :-)

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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