Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 19 Oct 2014 13:00

buildit wrote:Genetics themselves are funny. As humans we are against the analysis of what matches would produce the best genetics in our children, too much like Hitler I guess.


Cross-breeding humans can be an excellent idea. Why force a child to play an instrument when we could create one already inclined to do that, right? In fact, why not improve the mediocrity that nature has come up with (another argument against intelligent design right here)! Scientists can already see that, in principle, superhuman geniuses can be created. Imagine knowing enough about genetic engineering to the point of conceiving a person who excels at everything... :!:

Hitler might have been right in suggesting selective breeding for humans but he was wrong and twisted about the eugenics involved. First of all, even his so called Aryan race was not pure. There is no such thing as a pure race even if appearances can be misleading. Also, a pure race does not necessarily equate with superiority. In fact, history has taught us that sometimes the opposite is quite true, eg. the Tasmanians who were quite pure but were primitive and drove themselves to extinction contrasted with the Ancient Greeks who were mixed but quite advanced and exerting hegemony.

Hitler was simply and despicably wrong. What's more, he used The Protocols of the Elders of Zion canard counterfeited by the Russian Orthodox Church in order to turn Germans against Jewry. In Mein Kampf he highlights the reasons for the pogrom of Jews, claiming that the Lord wants it to happen. His reasons for persecuting Jews were more political and religious than scientific. And contrary to popular belief, he was not an atheist. He believed he was sent by Providence (sometimes referring to this higher power as "God").

nesgirl wrote:Then there's my other uncle, who got arrested for doing terrible things to a child. Although my father has a heart for him, I literally cannot stand him, because to me, what he did to me was unforgivable. One time he went to a family gathering, and many woman were gathering around the children (myself included) and were overprotecting them from him, and I was actually ready to deck him if he tried to hurt him.


I am sorry you were the victim of a sexual predator. That shouldn't have happened. But just know that you can always move on and lead a happy life. He is not worth your time and effort. I would also urge you to consider that not all sexual people are of the same calibre.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 19 Oct 2014 13:09

Yes. It's amusing when religious people use Hitler and Nazism as an example of atheism being the very definition of anarchy and evil and immorality. Even when putting all of the obvious proof of Hitler's religious motives aside, it is easy to say that Hitler was not exactly a giant of Reason. All of his ideas were built around pure dogma--eg, all Jews are terrible creatures and must be exterminated, no questions asked. That's why I call myself an anti-dogmatist as well as an atheist. Unquestionable, universal principles are dangerous!
Well said.

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 19 Oct 2014 15:12

What's more, officially, Hitler never renounced Christianity. So, right there, you have a Christian, and certainly a believer in the supernatural, responsible for the Holocaust. Not to mention the pact he had with the Holy See... :twisted:

The deal was: The Christian political party should disband and cease all negative propaganda of Nazism. In return, the Church was granted power over birth, education, marriage, and death. :shock:

Oh yeah! The Church should also supply Hitler with the names of Jewish people as well as Christians who were related to them. The pact between Hitler and the Vatican speaks for itself and this is how the Church is complicit. :o

And before anyone points out that Stalin was an atheist, which he was, let me revive my Hitchensian argument in order to refute that as an argument against atheism... :mrgreen:

Stalin did not subdue the masses in the name of atheism. Stalin did it in the name of his twisted Marxism and still allowed the Russian Orthodox Church to remain active and keep the people servile just like they were during the Czarist regime. (The Czar himself was considered to be a demigod.) 8-)

Stalin, who influenced Saddam Hussein (advocate of Sunni Islam and the socialism of the Ba'athist Party), by the way, was the "superman" of Russia, to be revered by everyone. He was always right (sarcasm) and knew what was best for his "children." So much so that they had to grovel to live. Pseudoscience was employed for his political ends and taught at schools for the purpose of brainwashing. Stalin even appointed Lysenko as director of the Institute of Genetics of the Soviet Union, who caused incalculable damage to Soviet agriculture. If you don't know Lysenko, guys, he was a second-rate plant breeder who opposed Darwinism, Mendelianism, and subscribed to the fallacious Lamarckism. :evil:

Like I said initially, we need Enlightenment and secularism. Saddam Hussein and Stalin are not examples of either, much less humanism! If the pious want to have any argument whatsoever against my proposition as a solution to effectively run a nation, they need to point me to a secular society that adopted the teachings of Lucretius, Newton, Darwin, Einstein, Paine, Spinoza, Jefferson, Voltaire - and many other enlightened figures of our time (Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris, Dennett, Krauss) - and still fell into war, famine and death. They won't find one. The closest the religious will get, and these examples are still not quite there, are the European countries I mentioned previously which happen to have the lowest crime rate and the highest number of atheists (some progress as you can all see): Netherlands and Sweden. :ugeek:

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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buildit
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby buildit » 19 Oct 2014 17:50

Summerlander wrote:Cross-breeding humans can be an excellent idea. Why force a child to play an instrument when we could create one already inclined to do that, right? In fact, why not improve the mediocrity that nature has come up with (another argument against intelligent design right here)! Scientists can already see that, in principle, superhuman geniuses can be created. Imagine knowing enough about genetic engineering to the point of conceiving a person who excels at everything... :!:


Such a person is almost as feared by society as they are loved. We want to have the knowledge to make life as we see fit but lack the knowledge to know the moral implications a society of super humans could mean. Do average men become the new slaves to this super race? Will great ability breed even greater hubris? It is the great debate as to whether it's better for man to gain knowledge thru trials and tribulation or thru instant effect.
Is Lucid Dreaming the brains preparation for the next step of human evolution when we can escape the corporeal bond of our bodies?

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nesgirl
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby nesgirl » 19 Oct 2014 22:10

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 21 May 2015 03:47, edited 2 times in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 20 Oct 2014 00:05

Yeah, good job editing that post, nesgirl. You really came off as a total lunatic originally. I mean, you still come off as a lunatic, but less so than before you edited :D

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Well said.

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 20 Oct 2014 00:46

@buildit: If greater ability becomes the norm, there is no reason for greater hubris. We are merely setting the bar higher. As for morality, science can help us with that as it can identify our human values and enhance them. It can discover what is good for us before we even know it. I recommend "The Moral Landscape" by Sam Harris. It is a good read and you won't regret it. You will come away feeling more enlightened.

@nesgirl: Well, you can put all of that behind you. You don't have to trust people 100% but know that there are many sexuals out there that you can trust to be friendly and helpful.

@everyone: Anyone got any news on the Iraq-Syria conflict? Has ISIL penetrated Turkey? I haven't checked the news (just got back from work).

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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nesgirl
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby nesgirl » 20 Oct 2014 01:38

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 21 May 2015 03:48, edited 1 time in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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buildit
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby buildit » 20 Oct 2014 02:55

deschainXIX wrote:Yeah, good job editing that post, nesgirl. You really came off as a total lunatic originally. I mean, you still come off as a lunatic, but less so than before you edited :D


Easy on the criticisms There is no need for that, unless you want to prove all you can be a worse person?
Is Lucid Dreaming the brains preparation for the next step of human evolution when we can escape the corporeal bond of our bodies?

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buildit
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby buildit » 20 Oct 2014 02:59

nesgirl wrote:I am not thinking too straight right now, because I am having severe mood swing trouble right now. One thing about being FEMALE is that you will likely have that happen to you every few weeks (or if you take the pills, few months).


Maybe it's time to take a step back from the discussion. No reason to let an internet discussion get under your skin. ;)
Is Lucid Dreaming the brains preparation for the next step of human evolution when we can escape the corporeal bond of our bodies?


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