Does the Soul Exist?

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Is there a soul?

Humans have souls, but animals and other living things do not
1
6%
Both animals and humans have souls
6
38%
The soul does not exist
6
38%
Other
3
19%
 
Total votes: 16

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R99
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby R99 » 12 Oct 2014 17:06

What is greed????? greed is, similarly, an inordinate desire to acquire or possess MORE THAN ONE NEEDS.. i dont know what kind of greed, u people talking about. and what kind of species is tend to show greed in Animal world?.

Summerlander wrote:Are you telling us that you don't vicariously enjoy the carnage and the fear depicted in a horror movie? Also, who are these real humans you refer to? They can't constitute a majority...


i didnt said anything about fear. i was talking about violence. i was referring to how some people love blood shred these days thats it. did u ever watched final destination movies. i loved its concept its pretty cool. but i didnt loved the way it is depicted. its like people (directors, writers etc) r thinking about how to kill a person with most brutal way. what the heck was they thinking. the same with the movie "Saw" first was awesome then after it total bullshit. i never ever going to enjoy that kind of movie. alas most people love it.
are u getting the picture.i wasnt disapproving anything. i just annoyed the way most people think. again am nobody to argue. ur experiences r differ from mine.

summerlnder, majority isnt always the right.

u dont need 100 years of life experience to understand simple laws of nature. just need good teacher and a calm mind. in my case nature is my teacher.

here is some wisdom words from agent smith from matrix.....

" I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure."



that paragraph alone describes how humans cant be compared to animals.

Summerlander wrote:Cheats soon overtake Suckers by numbers. They will be more likely to survive and propagate their genes. It is just how it is.


its a disease not an evolution.

Summerlander wrote: who are these real humans you refer to? They can't constitute a majority.


yeah u r right they cant constitute majority. Christ was a real human, Buddha was a real human, Mother Theresa was a real human. etc etc etc..... still the list is too long. even anybody could be real humans. just be good.
I see the Truth now.

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deschainXIX
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby deschainXIX » 12 Oct 2014 18:48

R99 wrote:What is greed????? greed is, similarly, an inordinate desire to acquire or possess MORE THAN ONE NEEDS.. i dont know what kind of greed, u people talking about. and what kind of species is tend to show greed in Animal world?.


Not at all. Since you're basing your entire argument off of the lingual meaning of the term "greed," here is the dictionary definition:
(n.) intense and selfish desire for something, especially wealth, power, or food


R99 wrote:that paragraph alone describes how humans cant be compared to animals.


Uh ... you realize that in the very quote you supplied, Agent Smith says that humans and viruses are the same? So in the very quote that supposedly proves animals cannot be compared to humans, humans are compared to a virus. So what exactly is your reasoning here? That viruses and any other organism that employs parasitic survival strategies is not only unintelligent but also inherently unnatural? It all goes back to how you mysteriously think that an organism that harms another organism is unintelligent and AGAIN--THAT IS SIMPLY INCORRECT.


R99 wrote:i didnt said anything about fear. i was talking about violence. i was referring to how some people love blood shred these days thats it. did u ever watched final destination movies. i loved its concept its pretty cool. but i didnt loved the way it is depicted. its like people (directors, writers etc) r thinking about how to kill a person with most brutal way. what the heck was they thinking. the same with the movie "Saw" first was awesome then after it total bullshit. i never ever going to enjoy that kind of movie. alas most people love it.
are u getting the picture.i wasnt disapproving anything. i just annoyed the way most people think. again am nobody to argue. ur experiences r differ from mine.


Why do you seem to think that people's tendency toward violence is a recent development? Need I mention the Roman Empire, in which crucifying was a common death sentence and slaves were made into gladiators to fight each other and vicious animals to the death?
Then you say that you love the concept of Final Destination, in which people know they are going to die a gruesome death and there is no way to avoid it. Then you say you love Saw, in which people are abducted by a serial killer and forced to free themselves via heinous and violent acts. So you just proved my point.


R99 wrote:summerlnder, majority isnt always the right.


Who said anything about being right? We're talking about the nature of humans and animals. Why don't you understand that?


R99 wrote:its a disease not an evolution.

R99 wrote:yeah u r right they cant constitute majority. Christ was a real human, Buddha was a real human, Mother Theresa was a real human. etc etc etc..... still the list is too long. even anybody could be real humans. just be good.


Sorry, can anyone decode for me what he means by this?



R99, it seems like you're not even considering or thinking about any of the things we're saying to you. Like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing simply because you want to believe what you believe. I honestly don't know what idea you're arguing for anymore. That humans are inherently evil? Because ... they do harm to other organisms? I don't even think you have any idea what you think anymore. It seems like you're just sort of spasming out anything that sounds even remotely like a response. Anyway...
Well said.

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R99
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby R99 » 12 Oct 2014 19:15

deschainXIX wrote:R99, it seems like you're not even considering or thinking about any of the things we're saying to you. Like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing simply because you want to believe what you believe. I honestly don't know what idea you're arguing for anymore. That humans are inherently evil? Because ... they do harm to other organisms? I don't even think you have any idea what you think anymore. It seems like you're just sort of spasming out anything that sounds even remotely like a response. Anyway...


just like u r doing. my beliefs cant be changed by anyone except me.
I see the Truth now.

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deschainXIX
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby deschainXIX » 12 Oct 2014 19:37

And you don't see the egotistical and irrational problem with that mindset? You think that you know literally everything there is to know and that no other human being in existence is capable of an independent, well-informed thought that merits your consideration?
Well said.

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R99
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby R99 » 12 Oct 2014 20:16

deschainXIX wrote:Why do you seem to think that people's tendency toward violence is a recent development? Need I mention the Roman Empire, in which crucifying was a common death sentence and slaves were made into gladiators to fight each other and vicious animals to the death?
Then you say that you love the concept of Final Destination, in which people know they are going to die a gruesome death and there is no way to avoid it. Then you say you love Saw, in which people are abducted by a serial killer and forced to free themselves via heinous and violent acts. So you just proved my point.
]

its the mystery, not the violence my friend :roll: both movies have a clever plot thats y i loved it ....

deschainXIX wrote: It all goes back to how you mysteriously think that an organism that harms another organism is unintelligent and AGAIN--THAT IS SIMPLY INCORRECT.


dah... it wasnt about intelligence, its about how humans destroys the eco system. humans have complex brain and yet they act like bunch of virus... :idea:

here the same dialogue again

" I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure."

R99 wrote:its a disease not an evolution.


to know what i meant u need to read summerlander's theory

Summerlander wrote:Another thing. Say there is a population of birds which, during preening, help one another to remove harmful ticks from their heads. Say the birds who follow the rule of "you scratch my back I'll scratch yours" constitute 60% of the population. Let's call these birds, which abide by reciprocal altruism, the "Suckers." They will always repay debts but this obviously costs them time and energy. The other 40% constitute birds that never reciprocate help. They allow themselves to be saved from the ticks by letting the other birds preen them but will never repay the favour. These birds, let's call them "Cheats," will save time and energy like it or not.

Cheats soon overtake Suckers by numbers. They will be more likely to survive and propagate their genes. It is just how it is.




deschainXIX wrote: Since you're basing your entire argument off of the lingual meaning of the term "greed," here is the dictionary definition:
(n.) intense and selfish desire for something, especially wealth, power, or food


As a secular psychological concept, greed is, similarly, an inordinate desire to acquire or possess more than one needs. The degree of inordinance is related to the inability to control the reformulation of "wants" once desired "needs" are eliminated.[color=#0000FF] Erich Fromm described greed as "a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction." It is typically used to criticize those who seek excessive material wealth, although it may apply to the need to feel more excessively moral, social, or otherwise better than someone else.[/color]

this is not just from a dictionary, its from wikipeida... greed is not just a word its an emotion u need to explain it in larger scale. greed and need r both separate.

I said that animals have no souls because they have no problem with brutally and indiscriminately murdering fellow animals, sometimes even animals of their own species. But it seems that humans hold a similar primitive, subconscious violence, something left over from their time spent in the caves. Perhaps serial killers simply have no regard for social barriers and are simply more in touch with their true nature. Either way, empathy is irrelevant.


these r ur words. i started this discussion just bcoz this. u tend to think that humans behave brutally bcoz we humans lived our past in caves like animals. i have nothing against ur belief. serial killers kills for fun bcoz of their previous experiences with their tensed and troubled life. they picked it up from current society not from any cave. i am not talking jiberish here.

i know this thread about soul. yet i am talking about nature and human, animals. thats bcoz of ur own words. am just saying that do not blame nature for our self grown stupidity like greed, cannibalism, sadism, psychopath.. blame the society.
I see the Truth now.

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Summerlander
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby Summerlander » 14 Oct 2014 01:31

Actually, the brain of a psychopath is quite different from a "normal" person. This causes them to have lack of empathy. They are also narcissistic and egotistical in the extreme. Many have a penchant for cruelty.

This is their nature. It is not their fault why they feel the way they do. A number of factors may contribute to their psychopathy. Genes (which influence embryology), upbringing, life experience etc. may even lead them to become serial killers. There absolutely nothing wrong with what deschain said there.

About my"theory" of suckers and cheats. It isn't just a theory. Logically, the cheats survive given enough time. You also do not understand the word evolution. Evolution implies change, not (necessarily) improvement if this is what you are thinking. And viruses are natural too, by the way.

You also can't take a quote from a movie and use that to back up your reasoning. Agent Smith there seems to forget that the aparent natural equilibrium achieved by many species does not last forever. Did you know that 99% of all the species that have ever existed on this planet have gone extinct? We humans would have also died out if we hadn't left the savanah. At one point there was only a few thousand of us on Earth. That's how close we came to extinction. Today we are close to 7 billion...

We have adapted well to our niche. Survival of the fittest is about adaptability. And we have survived and ironically enough, also help other inferior species of animals to survive.

I think agent Smith needed a lesson in Darwinian evolution there. But perhaps he was only programmed to make the rebels of Zion feel bad about themselves and give up, eh? :-D

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Derpybunneh
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby Derpybunneh » 24 Oct 2014 00:46

Both humans and animals have souls.
LUCID DREAMS: 5
DREAMS: 9000+

“I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest
deceit in the history of science.” Søren Løvtrup

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Summerlander
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby Summerlander » 24 Oct 2014 13:00

Where is the evidence for that claim?
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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HAGART
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby HAGART » 24 Oct 2014 18:27

I remember questioning the existence of a 'soul' a while ago. (June 2012)
http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1671

It's interesting to look back and read what we all said back then. In two years I haven't changed a bit and neither has anyone else.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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deschainXIX
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby deschainXIX » 24 Oct 2014 20:29

Derpybunneh wrote:Both humans and animals have souls.

Summerlander wrote:Where is the evidence for that claim?

Exactly. Read through the previous posts, Derpybunneh. You should at least provide us with your reasoning.

HAGART wrote:I remember questioning the existence of a 'soul' a while ago. (June 2012)
http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1671

It's interesting to look back and read what we all said back then. In two years I haven't changed a bit and neither has anyone else.


Thanks for sharing; that was interesting.
But I am a case in point that people can be persuaded and changed. I'm an atheist today because Summerlander convinced me that free will is an illusion, which sent me down the path of reason. I mean ... if you look at the posts I put on here back when I had only recently joined, I posted some pretty idiotic stuff. And that was only a year ago! :lol:
It's insane how much lucid dreaming and this forum have changed my perspective. I don't know, maybe I only changed because I'm rather young. Young people are often fickle, I've noticed.
Well said.


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