Crazy Idea

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kel21139
Posts: 5
Joined: 20 Oct 2014 17:37

Crazy Idea

Postby kel21139 » 20 Oct 2014 17:56

I know that dreams are supposed to be our subconscious thoughts randomly rolling around or some other logical explanation of the like. Yet, I've always felt like there was more to it than that. Possibly our subconscious tapping into another dimension or another plane of reality, or maybe we are truly awake when we are in a dream and our perception of what dreaming should be is actually backwards. I have barely, if ever had a lucid dream but I have had dreams that feel so real it does have me question the validity of our reality. Some dreams are so intense that I feel like I'm truly alive while sleeping. My emotions are so ecstasy filled as if I could love, or fear, or have passion a hundred times greater than in when I am awake. It's like having the most perfect moment, the most perfect love, and the most perfect place in your grasp, only to be whisked away as you realize it was nothing more than a lie. It's heart breaking and soul crushing. It's the worst feeling in the world, but when I'm there it feels like I'm real and I would put up through all the nightmares and all the sorrow of that feeling just to experience the happiness I felt in that perfect moment that happens in some dreams. I have this lingering feeling that dreams are a window to so much more than just a bunch of synapse in our brain communicating surreal nonsense. I would like to know if anyone feels the same or if there's a logical explanation to why I feel this way.

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nesgirl
Posts: 1278
Joined: 25 May 2014 23:10

Re: Crazy Idea

Postby nesgirl » 20 Oct 2014 21:16

Hey

Sometimes I do feel like my Lucid Dreams are another reality myself. Don't be ashamed that you feel that way.
In fact in a way, Lucid Dreams and Multimedia Design are a separate reality from the real world, and have their own rules. The only laws that must be obeyed in these realities like in the real world are the laws of math. Otherwise, there are virtually no rules or laws when it comes to your dreams unless you are the one who assigns them. Once you are fully aware of your reality and where you are, you can control your reality, and assign your own characters, your own rules, and your own limitations.
Well I can say there are a few rules. One is that to each is his own reality, and 2 realities can never be identical. Two is that a person can never digitally leave their virtual world. Three is that the laws of math can always apply in a Lucid Dream/dream or even in a Multimedia project, and probability is no exception, which means that having the luck of the real world in a Lucid Dream/dream I can and will say is in fact possible, however, the dreamer cannot control this.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

teatops
Posts: 1
Joined: 26 Oct 2014 19:13

Re: Crazy Idea

Postby teatops » 26 Oct 2014 19:25

1st post i read had me hooked ,
i love the word "why" i have zero math skills and have to walk around n sandals to make change . So does that mean math is going to follow suit in my dreams ? and or do i get to write my own math . I have had thoughts of being a catalyst in solving the problem of gravity .
I know very little about it but feel there is something i need to do . like the butterfly effect.
I have a no fear attitude when it comes to most things and a can do attitude when doing things I WANT TO DO ,

any reason that math has to be the same in my dream reality would be welcomed

regards Teatops

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nesgirl
Posts: 1278
Joined: 25 May 2014 23:10

Re: Crazy Idea

Postby nesgirl » 27 Oct 2014 01:15

teatops wrote:1st post i read had me hooked ,
i love the word "why" i have zero math skills and have to walk around n sandals to make change . So does that mean math is going to follow suit in my dreams ? and or do i get to write my own math . I have had thoughts of being a catalyst in solving the problem of gravity .
I know very little about it but feel there is something i need to do . like the butterfly effect.
I have a no fear attitude when it comes to most things and a can do attitude when doing things I WANT TO DO ,

any reason that math has to be the same in my dream reality would be welcomed

regards Teatops

I welcome you here as well

No it just means the laws of math follow you in your dreams, it doesn't mean you have to do any math. Probability for example. Like you know how you can guess what a card is in reality, and on very rare occasions, you can get it right in reality? In some very high clarity Lucid Dreams, it is possible to do exactly the same thing with a card game. Because your odds are 1/52, and there is always a chance of getting the card right.
There is no change in the laws of math, however in some cases, that can actually end up being a very good thing. Some probability-based Lucid Dreams in fact have been considered very much on the lucky side.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

kel21139
Posts: 5
Joined: 20 Oct 2014 17:37

Re: Crazy Idea

Postby kel21139 » 27 Oct 2014 17:37

@nesgirl .. Well if "One is to each his own reality" then is there any chance to break free from this perception of what our mind has created? For example , how does the mind exist without a body? After death, how could are thoughts or memories exist without a corporeal form of which to retain them?

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nesgirl
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Joined: 25 May 2014 23:10

Re: Crazy Idea

Postby nesgirl » 27 Oct 2014 22:00

kel21139 wrote:@nesgirl .. Well if "One is to each his own reality" then is there any chance to break free from this perception of what our mind has created? For example , how does the mind exist without a body? After death, how could are thoughts or memories exist without a corporeal form of which to retain them?

Scientifically unfortunately there is no way. Although your mind can go so many places within a Lucid Dream, why would you want to?

And the mind cannot exist without a body, unless you are referring to mind uploading, which would technically allow a person to still exist after death. As far as that goes, mind uploading could technically allow us to keep existing, because our brain's consciousness into programming, and then the programming would be put into the mind of a robot or the body of a clone, which the person could continue existing through the robot or the clone.

If you are referring to religion and dualism, that isn't a very good subject to discuss on this forum, and it would be better not to discuss that, because there are a lot of users who really frown on that subject.

And as far as death goes, personally it is a much better option to just go into permanent unconscious. See Immortality would be a terrible thing to have to go through, and while you would enjoy it for a while, you would go absolutely crazy after a while of being immortal and doing the same thing over and over again, and would wish to cease to exist after a while. If you don't get what I am saying, watch this SpongeBob episode called Squidville:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZBDQtvf59s
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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Summerlander
Posts: 3639
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Crazy Idea

Postby Summerlander » 27 Oct 2014 23:00

kel21139 wrote: I have barely, if ever had a lucid dream but I have had dreams that feel so real it does have me question the validity of our reality. Some dreams are so intense that I feel like I'm truly alive while sleeping. My emotions are so ecstasy filled as if I could love, or fear, or have passion a hundred times greater than in when I am awake. It's like having the most perfect moment, the most perfect love, and the most perfect place in your grasp, only to be whisked away as you realize it was nothing more than a lie. It's heart breaking and soul crushing. It's the worst feeling in the world, but when I'm there it feels like I'm real and I would put up through all the nightmares and all the sorrow of that feeling just to experience the happiness I felt in that perfect moment that happens in some dreams. I have this lingering feeling that dreams are a window to so much more than just a bunch of synapse in our brain communicating surreal nonsense. I would like to know if anyone feels the same or if there's a logical explanation to why I feel this way.


First, you need to have a lucid dream. Second, the intensity of hallucinations do not question the validity of objective reality in any way. How did you work that one out? It merely shows that the brain creates an elaborate model of reality during the waking state, a sort of "hallucination" constrained by sensory input, and, at night, it is free to create other models unconstrained by sensory input from the external world, i.e. dreams, lucid dreams.

It is also apparent to me that the truth of dreams being mere illusions is so repugnant to you that you would rather wrap yourself in the delusion that they occur in another dimension. If the materialistic explanation does not satisfy you, what more do you want? Your fantasy is certainly no explanation! where is this dimension? What is it made of? How does human consciousness tap into it? where is your evidence?

As you said, a "lingering feeling" aka. a bias. Just because a proposition to you is more attractive does not make it true and it is no good reason for subscribing to it. It is more noble to follow the truth no matter how repulsive it is. At least it's the truth! 8-)

@nesgirl .. Well if "One is to each his own reality" then is there any chance to break free from this perception of what our mind has created? For example , how does the mind exist without a body? After death, how could are thoughts or memories exist without a corporeal form of which to retain them?


The mind cannot exist without the body for it is a byproduct of it. There is no afterlife either and out-of-body experiences are just illusions. The usually inaccurate replicate of your bedroom, or replica of the tiny portion of the local universe that you happened to have fallen asleep in, is hallucinated (created by your mind which is in turn generated by your brain). :ugeek:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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buildit
Posts: 491
Joined: 23 Sep 2014 04:14
Location: USA

Re: Crazy Idea

Postby buildit » 28 Oct 2014 01:46

kel21139 wrote:@nesgirl .. Well if "One is to each his own reality" then is there any chance to break free from this perception of what our mind has created? For example , how does the mind exist without a body? After death, how could are thoughts or memories exist without a corporeal form of which to retain them?

Put another way, "How does the mind break free of the perception our body has allowed it?" There is art, music, and Intuitive leaps of perception. The act of bringing into existence that which has never been seen or experienced is not measurable. Yet it happens and to a degree that has never been experienced in 5000 years of human history. Sure our tools are better and our machines can now think for us, even our means of communicating and sharing information are beyond the dreams of people 50 years ago. So we keep asking what does it mean? Some are tied to the logic and unemotional rational answers math and science can give us, others are shall we say holistic in their approach. I prefer the marriage of science to the preceptive answers that can be sometimes found in dreams. To that end I believe the mind can exist outside the corporeal, question is are dreams a practice ground for what comes next or a preview of what man may become?
Is Lucid Dreaming the brains preparation for the next step of human evolution when we can escape the corporeal bond of our bodies?

kel21139
Posts: 5
Joined: 20 Oct 2014 17:37

Re: Crazy Idea

Postby kel21139 » 29 Oct 2014 17:07

@Summerlander... To be clear, even though I may have a biased opinion in my pursuit of an explanation to why I feel this way I am not closed off to any idea no matter how repulsive the reality of it may seem to me. I realize the fact, that in me wishing there to be something more hinders me from possibly ever accepting the cold hard truth that there may not be. This has nothing to do with religion and what is science but mere theories until proven correct or false by testing them out?The world was flat to everyone more than 500 years ago, and those who thought differently were ridiculed or deemed insane but lo and behold the Earth was actually round when we had the means to verify it for ourselves. All I'm asking for is someone to shed some light on my opinion, preferably someone with experience in the same emotions be it whether I'm a fool following another fool or it being someone who truly understands these things. I accept my own demise in believing something that may not be possible or exist. If this something, whatever it is may be is out there, then how rewarding would it be to actually find it or non the less at least know that it wasn't true with 100% certainty. Yet if I were to stop searching and find out this to be true later on and know it was too late now to get to it, then to me that would be worse then any conceivable hell or torture within the imagination of the human mind.

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Summerlander
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Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Crazy Idea

Postby Summerlander » 29 Oct 2014 18:48

I think you mistake the meaning of a scientific theory for our quotidian use of the word. In science, a theory is a body of work involving data and observations. A theory is ready to be confirmed a posteriori, or be wholly or partly falsified. Some theories have predictive power and stand the test of time. Their conclusions have earned the factual label.

In science, you also get hypotheses. There is the hypothesis of God's existence. There is the hypothesis of unicorns. The hypothesis of ghosts. Hypotheses are ideas with less substance than theories. In fact, the aforementioned examples have no underpinnings, i.e. no calculations, no measurements, no confirmed observations or evidence of any sort. The onus is on the exponent to demonstrate their validity if they hold any. The afterlife lies in this category. So far, those who claim that we are immortal have failed to show, in a reasonable way, the roots of their certainty.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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