LD from weeks back

Tell us about your first lucid dream - and your latest. We want all the juicy details. Also share results of dream challenge experiments.
Old Traveler
Posts: 40
Joined: 30 Oct 2014 16:01

LD from weeks back

Postby Old Traveler » 01 Nov 2014 21:05

At 7:00 PM I take two Melatonin tablets, each at 3mg and watch television. By 8:00 PM the Melatonin has pulled me into a light state of drowsiness; I go to bed. I fall asleep and awaken at 1:30 AM; I have put in 5 1/2 hours of sleep. I force myself up and dally around trying to find something to do. I even think about having a cup of coffee but think, “Better not to that. I want to get back to sleep.” I read some material I picked up off the internet the day before. It is on the nature of rapport vs. empathy. Because I am involved to some extent in remote viewing I understand the importance of empathy and rapport in a remote viewing session. It is the ONLY way to connect with the target and produce a good remote viewing session. I suspect the same may hold true for the lucid dream induction as well. Early hypnotherapies discovered the importance of rapport and empathy early on. The power of intention comes in next as equal importance.

At 8:00 I return to bed and begin a meditation. I begin with “being aware” of the different parts of my body, letting the tension dissipate from each part. I feel the body parts sinking into the comfort of the bed. The two become one. I focus my attention on the breath, the raising and falling away of the breath, again and again. I tell myself, periodically, that I am dreaming. Some thought other than the breathing emerges and I catch it quickly like the Baseball Catcher with his mitt; I discard the ball and wait for the next pitch. Believe me the mind is good at pitching unwanted thoughts; it takes quite awhile for the mind to settle down. Soon, I am aware of that I am looking at a stand of trees and how beautiful they are.

I am dreaming! I am aware of the trees and how they go in and out of focus. It reminds me of looking through my telescope when I was a teenager, adjusting the lens to the right focus. Everything is crystal clear. It seems to be very late in the afternoon; the sun has just gone over the horizon but it is still light of day. I float toward the trees and the next thing I know I am up and away past the trees. I start to go higher but fear grabs me and I hang on. I am afraid I will continue on out into outer space and not get back. I am content to hover over the trees. I go a little higher and realize I am flying over a large city. The city extends in every direction. I have no idea where I am. I am not used to seeing from this perspective. In the distance I see a part of the sky that is dark. I sense a rain drop hit my face and another and another! At a certain point I realize I am losing my grip on the dream and can’t hold on much longer. I forget the spinning technique I was taught.

I AWAKEN and find myself lying on the ground in back of my house. I am lying on the unpaved parking area and feel the grit on my face. Good grief! I have no clothes on! I am lying there completely naked! How did this happen? There are some old newspapers lying nearby. I grab them and quickly wrap them around me at the same time trying to make a dash for my house. There is a chain length fence and no gate opening. What is THIS about? I find a small opening and manage to squeeze through but the newspaper makes it difficult. I get through just as a pickup truck pulls into the drive and parks.
I make my way to the front of the house. It doesn’t occur to me to use the back door.

I step up onto the porch and can hear the television. Someone is up. I seem to know that it is early in the morning AM. Someone opens the door for me. I am standing there embarrassed, but no one says anything. My two room mates just look at me. “Do any of you remember my going out?” “Why yea, about two hours ago,” they say. They grin thinking I must be drunk. I go to my room and see my clothes hanging over the back of my chair.

I awaken to find that I am really home in my bed. What a “thank god” relief that is!
I had experienced a false awakening!

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 3651
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: LD from weeks back

Postby Summerlander » 01 Nov 2014 22:08

Old Traveler wrote:At 7:00 PM I take two Melatonin tablets, each at 3mg and watch television. By 8:00 PM the Melatonin has pulled me into a light state of drowsiness; I go to bed. I fall asleep and awaken at 1:30 AM; I have put in 5 1/2 hours of sleep. I force myself up and dally around trying to find something to do. I even think about having a cup of coffee but think, “Better not to that. I want to get back to sleep.” I read some material I picked up off the internet the day before. It is on the nature of rapport vs. empathy.


What effect do you think melatonin has on you? Does it make you dream vividly? It may aid the brain to compound psychedelic agents such as endogenous DMT but I would be careful not to overdose. It is said that cheddar cheese can promote the emergence of vivid dreams due to its richness in tryptophan although I wonder how much the placebo effect plays a role in heightening a degree of consciousness (not enough to be lucid) which begets perceptual clarity.

Old Traveler wrote:Because I am involved to some extent in remote viewing I understand the importance of empathy and rapport in a remote viewing session. It is the ONLY way to connect with the target and produce a good remote viewing session. I suspect the same may hold true for the lucid dream induction as well. Early hypnotherapies discovered the importance of rapport and empathy early on. The power of intention comes in next as equal importance.


I understand the power of intention during lucid dream induction. But I am not sure I understand where you are coming from when you place emphasis on empathy and rapport in remote viewing. Do you believe empathy makes you more receptive of your target and is it only applicable to human targets? I'm also wondering what rapport entails, or more like what building rapport entails...

Building rapport often, but not always, involves getting to know someone. Specific details about your target and his way of life may come to the fore. You understand that I am coming from a sceptical point of view so I am curious about how much a particular kind of rapport bears on the success of a remote viewing session. By success I don't necessarily mean the experience itself but the posteriority in which the target is then made aware of what the experiencer perceived and able to comment. The experienced content is thus reinterpreted in a way that is made to fit what happens to be true about the target. To cut a longer story short, how much does confirmation bias play a role?

Old Traveler wrote:Some thought other than the breathing emerges and I catch it quickly like the Baseball Catcher with his mitt; I discard the ball and wait for the next pitch. Believe me the mind is good at pitching unwanted thoughts; it takes quite awhile for the mind to settle down. Soon, I am aware of that I am looking at a stand of trees and how beautiful they are.


I like this form of visualisation to discard unwanted thoughts. I might try it myself. So suddenly you "come to" in a dream world. I take it that at this point you feel like not much time has elapsed from your pensive exercise and it's possible that the sudden awareness of the trees is subsequent to it. Would you class this beginning as a WILD or a DILD? I guess for the latter interpretation you would have to strongly suspect that something happened (like a dreamlet) before you became lucid in a vivid environment.

Old Traveler wrote:At a certain point I realize I am losing my grip on the dream and can’t hold on much longer. I forget the spinning technique I was taught.


This happens to me sometimes and I forget the techniques for intensification, prolongation and re-entry (into lucid dreamland).

Old Traveler wrote:I AWAKEN and find myself lying on the ground in back of my house. I am lying on the unpaved parking area and feel the grit on my face. Good grief! I have no clothes on! I am lying there completely naked! How did this happen? There are some old newspapers lying nearby. I grab them and quickly wrap them around me at the same time trying to make a dash for my house. There is a chain length fence and no gate opening. What is THIS about? I find a small opening and manage to squeeze through but the newspaper makes it difficult. I get through just as a pickup truck pulls into the drive and parks.
I make my way to the front of the house. It doesn’t occur to me to use the back door.


You had lost your lucidity at this point then. What an odd false awakening! LOL! :lol:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

Old Traveler
Posts: 40
Joined: 30 Oct 2014 16:01

Re: LD from weeks back

Postby Old Traveler » 02 Nov 2014 00:23

Melatonin is just an aid to help me sleep. I never noticed a difference in
dream frequency or quality, though some people claim they had intense
and vivid dreams after taking it.

Empathy may have been the wrong word. Rapport on the other hand is I
think necessary to do good remote viewing and probably quality dreaming
as well.

"To have a good, easy relationship with someone. Not necessarily a close relationship, but a friendly one that would make it easy for you to broach a topic with them." It begins with oneself, in my opinion;
if one has an easy relationship with oneself it will be easier to relax, which means letting go of
most of the mental and physical noise in one's life, with means better focus, which means a more
accurate remote viewing session. It is amazing how much information in a remote viewing session can be influenced by what is happening in a persons subconscious while viewing the target. To be in rapport implies to me, to be at peace with oneself and by extension, at peace with the world. And no, I am not talking about Saints. I am certainly not one of them.

Empathy can and does build rapport with others; trying to put oneself in another's shoes and
have the capacity to FEEL another's predicament goes along way in establishing a rapport. The ability to
listen, does to.

This has gotten a little off topic but in remote viewing people of remarkable qualities of showing empathy may actually have a hard time when viewing a target where some horrific event has taken place. Some people can empathize easily; others have to work at it. For those of less empathic capacity, highly emotional targets will probably not affect them much, but for those who can FEEL and pick up on another's, misfortune, they will feel like they have been run through a wringer.

While remote viewing by itself is not dangerous, people who may have emotional instability probably should not seriously entertain taking up RV. In RV, information about the target is being filtered through the subconscious, and through your senses, and written out and many cases drawn as a picture. That information can STAY with a viewer for long periods of time. I have known some views who told me that when they did a target, at some point they could FEEL the emotions at the target site. There is NO easy answer as how to detox oneself' and leave all the negative stuff behind.

NOW then, what about the dream characters in our dreams. Can we see them as more than just dream characters? Do they have a reality other than our dream reality? I don't know. We obviously think they have some capacity to "give us answers" we put to them. Now it goes beyond rapport with ourselves; now we can ask if its possible to have rapport with dream characters, especially when they sometimes seem stubborn and refuse to cooperate with us. Do they deserve as much respect and regard as people in waking life?

Just something to think about.
Old Traveler

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 3651
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: LD from weeks back

Postby Summerlander » 02 Nov 2014 02:18

Ah, that kind of RV. Now I get it and I think I've done it a few times with remarkable accuracy. I think sociopaths would be no good at it though since they lack empathy.

I see dream characters as having multi-purpose. If one wants subconscious information out of them, the amicable approach is probably best. If one wishes to practice argumentation, then acting with passion or even aggression is probably on the cards - and one shouldn't be surprised if the DC responds in a similar manner.

I see dream contents as wholly phenomenological and thus products of brain activity. This includes dream objects, landscapes, and characters. It's the interpretation of a mishmash of cerebral data in conscious/mental form. Dreams are the made-up qualia of this. I may feel like I'm the observer, an existent self that could exist independent of dream worlds and physical matter, but I know this is a strange illusion. The self is nowhere to be found so why assume that other selves exists in dream forms that take up humanoid shapes? The self, as I am absolutely convinced, is like a centre of gravity... it "pulls" but there is nothing special in the centre holding everything together. It merely arises as an illusion, the result of elements collapsing in a particular space-time location in the cosmological analogy. What do you think?

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

Old Traveler
Posts: 40
Joined: 30 Oct 2014 16:01

Re: LD from weeks back

Postby Old Traveler » 02 Nov 2014 08:51

What has been your experience with RV?
Did you teach yourself or did you, like me, learn a technique.
I studied online with www.hrvg.org. back in 2000. I also had
lots of online contact with a few of the heavy weights from
the government program: Joe McMonegal, Lynn Bucnanan, and
a few not so well known names. Skipp Atwater teaches Extended
RV at the Monroe Institute. Personally, I consider Extended RV another
kind of dream or dreamy experience.
OT

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 3651
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: LD from weeks back

Postby Summerlander » 02 Nov 2014 17:20

The following link contains some of my experiences with what some might call remote viewing. At the time it seemed like some sort of visual "telepathy" - possibly made possible by Michael Persinger's theoretical model of quantum entanglement involving 7 billion brains within the geomagnetic field. This mind-entanglement would be made possible via the laws of physics, of course. (No paranormal activity here.) But sceptics would reasonably argue that people are bound to get hits and confirmation bias can play a massive role. Perhaps there is nothing there and what we are talking about here is just coincidental lucid dreaming. Anyway, you decide for yourself what I experienced here:

http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13928

I didn't teach myself or have any training. I just read Robert Monroe's first book and employed a technique he used to visit people. Surprisingly, the subjects were confirming stuff, like I had entered their mental space and lucidly witnessed what was on their minds... :shock:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

Old Traveler
Posts: 40
Joined: 30 Oct 2014 16:01

Re: LD from weeks back

Postby Old Traveler » 02 Nov 2014 19:48

This mind-entanglement would be made possible via the laws of physics, of course.
(No paranormal activity here.)

I concur on both points.

I had no idea RV was for real or not, so I choose to find out for myself.
I no longer have to say I believe its real; first hand experience has shown
me it is real. HOW it works is another matter. Nothing paranormal about it.
How it works will be discovered in the physics lab.

Are there other dimensions?

[i][i][i]"Where Do Our Thoughts Physically Exist?
By Tara MacIssac
Philosophers have wondered for ages how mind and matter relate to each other, and modern physics is chiming in on the debate. Here’s a look at a few theories about where or in what way our thoughts physically exist. 
Noosphere, Related to the Internet
Teilhard de Chardin, a Jesuit priest and paleontologist, wrote of a conceptual “noosphere” in the first half of the 20th century. He predicted that at a future stage of humanity’s development a membrane containing our collective thoughts and experiences would envelope the world.
In “The Phenomenon of Man,” he wrote: “Is this not like some great body which is being born—with its limbs, its nervous system, its perceptive organs, its memory—the body in fact of that great living Thing which had to come to fulfill the ambitions aroused in the reflective being by the newly acquired consciousness?”
Many have made a connection between De Chardin’s noosphere and the Internet. Could the Internet be considered a realm in which our collective consciousness exists?
 
Thoughts Exist in Other Physical Dimensions
Bernard Carr, a professor of mathematics and astronomy at Queen Mary University of London, says our consciousness interacts with another dimension. Albert Einstein stated that there are at least four dimensions. The fourth dimension is time, or spacetime, since Einstein said space and time cannot be separated.
Carr reasons that our physical sensors only show us a 3-dimensional universe, though there are actually at least four dimensions. What exists in the higher dimensions are entities we cannot touch with our physical sensors. He said that such entities must still have a type of space in which to exist.
“The only non-physical entities in the universe of which we have any experience are mental ones, and … the existence of paranormal phenomena suggests that mental entities have to exist in some sort of space,” Carr wrote."


Vast Realm Between Particles
Stanford University Professor Emeritus William A. Tiller hypothesizes that our thoughts have a physical effect on a “new level of substance … which appears to function in the physical vacuum (the empty space between the fundamental electric particles that make up our normal electric atoms and molecules).”
He says he has been able to measure this hitherto invisible substance, but only when it interacts with the substances we can conventionally measure. This interaction seems to occur when spurred by human intention, suggesting our thoughts physically exist in this realm.
Read more about Tiller’s theories: “Stanford Physicist: Vast, Powerful Realm Between Particles Influenced by Human Consciousness”
 
It all sounds wonderful doesn't it?
I'd love to believe it but cannot wholly give myself over.
Old Traveler





Read more about Carr’s theories: “Astronomer Says Spiritual Phenomena Exist in Other Dimensions”
 



[/i][/i][/i]

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 3651
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: LD from weeks back

Postby Summerlander » 02 Nov 2014 22:23

It all sounds wonderful indeed and one thing for sure is that we are still evolving. (And so are machines for that matter, and at an alarming rate according to Moore's law.)

The Internet is where our communication has evolved, so far, on a global scale. I suspect that, the more we learn about the brain, the more we will come to understand how something conscious can be created and how a Mindnet can be invented. I admire what the neural-Darwinian professor William Calvin has to say about this evolution of brains. A lot of people think the consciousness we experience today is it, as strong as can be. Wrong. This quote is simply inspiring:

"We will likely shift gears again, juggling more concepts and making decisions even faster, imagining courses of action in greater depth. Ethics are possible only because of a human level of ability to speculate, judge quality, and modify our possible actions accordingly."

- William H. Calvin

I had a gander on his website and found this:
http://www.williamcalvin.com/1980s/1987Nature.htm

I see that Emeritus William Tiller, unlike Calvin, deals in the unorthodox field of psychic phenomena. I was wondering if we could discuss this in depth. It is interesting that Tiller reckons there is an unwarranted hubris in the scientific community which causes orthodox scientists to, unbeknownst to them I presume, seek self-consistency with respect to their current distance-time reference frame rather than seek the real truth about nature which, in his view, includes metaphysics. Do you find that the majority of scientists have a tendency to do this? :|

My objection (I should say probing really) to Tiller's argument (as a materialist and sceptic we are bound to clash) would be: "Well, Mr. Tiller, how did they arrive at their current "reference frame" if not empirically and why should this contradict the true nature of reality in any way? :?

Can you link me to any scientific work that he may possess which substantiates his claims? I know the quotation you posted above describes his "psychoenergetic" idea as hypothetical (very cautious) but Tiller appears to speak in overtones of certainty and presupposes an existent dualism which obviously contradicts Calvin's model above. Tiller also seems to postulate a "place" for consciousness (another dimension) but does not attempt to explain consciousness itself. :geek:

Perhaps you know something about Emeritus Tiller that I am missing, and if so, could you kindly share it? I am willing to give this guy the benefit of the doubt and show how open-minded I am despite my scepticism. :mrgreen:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

Old Traveler
Posts: 40
Joined: 30 Oct 2014 16:01

Re: LD from weeks back

Postby Old Traveler » 03 Nov 2014 01:56

“Do you find that the majority of scientists have a tendency to do this?”

Majority? :lol: I don't know the majority, but I would bet whoever they are they probably do
lean toward that self-consistency.

“Can you link me to any scientific work that he may possess which substantiates his claims?”

I cannot. I don't know that it can be substantiated, at least not with our current understanding of science. And there is the hubris! Scientists think they have it all figured out! In two or three hundred years people will look back at what we thought to be scientifically “true” and smile” and say “Now isn't that idea quaint?”

Years back I was a voracious reader; now, not so much. Age has taken it's toll on my ability to retain and even complete, projects. I finally had my situation looked into months back and was
diagnosed with “mild memory loss.” My ability to focus for long periods of time was also diminished, hence my appetite for reading of anything longer than a short story, diminished as well. Even short stories are far too long! I once had the notion I would try to write short fiction, even a short novel as I found them interesting. Then I had the most astounding epiphany: my whole life was a fiction! Why would I want to engage in any more of it? I lost interest in all that. Seeking to be a “real” person wasn't/isn't all that easy either as no one seems to know just what reality is! Hahahaha. That said, consider that the human race has been all its short life, a race of story tellers. For eons human have
examined their world and saw things that amazed them and told stories about it. Stories were the way they learned to understand their world. It was a good way of conveying information insofar as they had no idea what information was in the first place. But once they started inventing language and looking at what their words actually met, the human race began to evolve mentally. The ball really got rolling and soon we had men in togas drinking cups of wine discussing philosophy. I bet all that wine made for some exciting discussion! Hahahaha. :lol:

Story telling is still a good way of conveying how the universe works. We have science writers pouring the stuff out by the volumes. The difference is how their stories are constructed: facts vs conjecture. The irony is that eventually the most absurd conjectures have away of becoming tomorrows fact. Isn't evolution wonderful? And this kind of evolution is brought about because people are always asking question, pushing the envelop!

“Perhaps you know something about Emeritus Tiller that I am missing...”

I seriously doubt it. :lol:

What is your back ground if I may ask? University? If so how far and in what area?

Old Traveler

Old Traveler
Posts: 40
Joined: 30 Oct 2014 16:01

Re: LD from weeks back

Postby Old Traveler » 03 Nov 2014 02:08

BTW
Tara MacIssac, Bernard Carr, William A. Tiller and people lime them, are telling some great stories, are they not? We are all story tellers, though some better than others. I wonder how much of their stories will become tomorrows truth?
OT :D


Return to “Share Your Lucid Dreams”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests