Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

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nesgirl
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby nesgirl » 02 Nov 2014 19:53

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 02 Nov 2014 23:13

Summerlander wrote:Shabir: "What religion are you?"

Me: "None. I was born into Catholicism but I don't follow it."

Shabir: "Christians are okay, but you should convert to Islam while you still can."

Me: "I am not religious and I don't believe in God."

Shabir: "My friend, I urge you to join Islam or you will burn in hell for eternity when you die."

Me: "There is no hell. When you die, that's it."

Shabir: "You are wrong. When you die you will see, and then I will be there to tell you 'I told you so!'"

Me: "There is no evidence for the existence of Allah..."

Shabir: "What!? Look at the signs!"

Me: "What signs?"

Shabir: "Look at the stars, the moon, the fish..."

Me: "Stars have existed long before us and where not made for us to look at. The moon is a dead world and a waste of one, too. It just shows the slapdash manner of our universe. No intelligent design behind nature. Fish evolved into what they look like today..."

Shabir: "You fail to recognise the signs. Instead you heed that asshole Darwin. Allah will not forgive you. I am trying to save your soul."

Me: "If I am wrong and there is a God then He should pardon me in the afterlife when I honestly tell Him that the so-called evidence was not strong enough and His message was weak and incoherent. He'll find me more honourable than the blind believers. Otherwise, He is not worth worshipping."

Shabir: "You will burn for that. I tried."

Me: "No I won't. Have a good day, sir."


Lol. I enjoyed reading that. Such creatures of passion, the religious are.

Summerlander wrote:I would consider homicide sober!


It's a fun mental exercise, planning murders.

Nesgirl's fears remind me of something amusing my brother ruminated about the other day. He wondered why ISIS doesn't go to Africa and "get their hands on some ebola." He thought if they did that, they could bring America to its knees. Needless to say, ebola is nowhere near some kind of doomsday-disease. It's actually an extremely inefficient organism. The only reason it's such a big problem in Africa is because Africa lacks both good public cleanliness and strong centralized government to handle epidemics. Ebola is only spread via bodily fluid exchange, and it kills its host so quickly the host doesn't have any time to spread the contagion.
I just thought that was funny. People get rather paranoid about Middle Eastern affairs sometimes. It's definitely one of the greatest problems in our modern world, but many people are concerned for the wrong reasons.
Well said.

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 03 Nov 2014 21:00

nesgirl wrote:It is not too funny if say for example the drunk kills a younger child within your family or your one of your other family member's children. You'd be really angry at the drunk then


Well, it's not funny period. I think I would be equally inclined to see red regardless of whether the killer was drunk and unintentionally caused the death of a child or sober and deliberately committing homicide. But it is also important to make a differentiation between responsible drinking and alcoholism. The focus should be more on individuals, their idiosyncrasies, and lifestyles than the mind-altering substances which have diverse effects depending on the imbiber. If an individual has a proclivity for aggression under the influence of alcohol then teetotalism is most prudent. If alcohol makes another individual more cordial and therefore more sociable, then it can be said that the substance agrees well with this drinker. In a similar vein, one can expect a bad outcome from a teenager who irresponsibly mixes MDMA, cocaine and Vodka - but this doesn't mean that scientists automatically lose their right to test the effects of MDMA in the human body under controlled conditions.

nesgirl wrote:Yes, but let me ask you, who does Iraq hate more at this point, Europe or America? Also, I doubt they are going to attack Europe if they have a huge defense. My opinion at this point if I think Iraq is going to go after any country that shows sign of any weakness or has a disaster fall on them to the point where they can't fight back.


The enemy is not Iraq as a nation. The Iraqi government desperately wants Britain and the USA to fix their problems and fight their war for them because they have simply failed running their country. How did they manage to accomplish this? Well, to keep a long story short, by favouring some religious factions over others. Shiites over Sunnis for example (which caused many Sunnis to join ISIS as they think this is some opportunity for revenge). The government failed to establish an egalitarian, democratic system. Jihadists merely stoked the conflict and the resulting chaos was the catalyst they needed to begin their Islamic imperialism. But we shouldn't forget Kurdistan, which is allied to the West and continuously fights the main threat! If we don't send our troops there, the Kurds are our only hope. The Islamic State, as you can see, is the problem. Not Iraq. The Syrian situation was where foreign policy failed the US government. At the onset of the Syrian civil war, Americans could have joined forces with the secular side of the Syrian army in order to depose the genocidal President Assad. Instead, Obama decided to try to preserve his reputation as an American president who did not engage in war. This is costing him (and the American public) now as he does not have enough support on Syrian ground.

By the way, there are other ways in which Islam could take over Europe. In fact, Islamists are already insidiously doing it with their mosques and so-called liberalism! They are taking advantage of our multiculturalism. If you can get your hands on "While Europe Slept: How Radical Islam is Destroying the West From Within" by Bruce Bawer, you'll see how.

deschainXIX wrote:Lol. I enjoyed reading that. Such creatures of passion, the religious are.


LOL! Tell me about it. They just don't see the sadomasochistic relationship they have with their imaginary Father. They don't see how ignoble it is to join Islam, or adhere to it, out of fear (of hell) and the desire to reach heaven. The Hitch's voice still echoes in my mind: "Created sick... ordered to be well!" :twisted:

deschainXIX wrote:It's a fun mental exercise, planning murders.


That's why me and my wife love the Jigsaw character so much. This song makes a lot of sense to me: :mrgreen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUGbu6Jcrmw

deschainXIX wrote:Nesgirl's fears remind me of something amusing my brother ruminated about the other day. He wondered why ISIS doesn't go to Africa and "get their hands on some ebola." He thought if they did that, they could bring America to its knees. Needless to say, ebola is nowhere near some kind of doomsday-disease. It's actually an extremely inefficient organism. The only reason it's such a big problem in Africa is because Africa lacks both good public cleanliness and strong centralized government to handle epidemics. Ebola is only spread via bodily fluid exchange, and it kills its host so quickly the host doesn't have any time to spread the contagion.


Now I'm learning something. I won't be surprised if we bury Ebola like we did with small pox. I think ISIS is planning to extend their Islamic empire as far a Northern Africa anyway. In fact, the restoration of the old Caliphate will include Europe too. :shock:

deschainXIX wrote:I just thought that was funny. People get rather paranoid about Middle Eastern affairs sometimes. It's definitely one of the greatest problems in our modern world, but many people are concerned for the wrong reasons.


Yes. And conspiracy theories about the American government don't help either. Watch how Hitchens deals with a "truther": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNAaDKZ-SuE :mrgreen:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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nesgirl
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby nesgirl » 03 Nov 2014 22:06

...
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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 04 Nov 2014 00:05

Summerlander wrote:LOL! Tell me about it. They just don't see the sadomasochistic relationship they have with their imaginary Father. They don't see how ignoble it is to join Islam, or adhere to it, out of fear (of hell) and the desire to reach heaven. The Hitch's voice still echoes in my mind: "Created sick... ordered to be well!"


Yeah. I know that I for one could never enjoy the pleasure and luxuries of heaven whilst knowing that the vast majority of all the humans who ever walked the earth were burning in the most unimaginable agony for eternity--and for no real reason. I actually get very angry when some religious figure says that they are happy so-and-so is burning forever in hell. They don’t seem to realize that absolutely no one deserves such a punishment (or ANY punishment at all, if we’re adhering to Sam Harris morality). If I were permitted into heaven, I would say, “Screw you, God, I’m going to be with the rest of my species, because that’s who I’d rather spend eternity with.” (But, of course, the idea of it all is totally absurd anyway, so I’m not making a real suggestion here lol. Nobody get pissed off.)

Summerlander wrote:That's why me and my wife love the Jigsaw character so much. This song makes a lot of sense to me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUGbu6Jcrmw


I totally get it too; and everyone else does too, however much they don't like to admit it. But not only that, but there's a psychologically-revealing message to be seen here, I think. I like people who are willing to admit that we humans thrive on chaos and morbidity and horror and all those sorts of things. I think it's a natural survival mechanism that arose evolutionarily.
"Horror is the removal of masks." --Robert Bloch

Summerlander wrote:ow I'm learning something. I won't be surprised if we bury Ebola like we did with small pox. I think ISIS is planning to extend their Islamic empire as far a Northern Africa anyway. In fact, the restoration of the old Caliphate will include Europe too.


I don’t know. Ebola has been a mystery to us for a long time. But medicine is definitely gaining a higher and higher quality, and I reckon we’ll lick it soon enough.

Summerlander wrote:Yes. And conspiracy theories about the American government don't help either. Watch how Hitchens deals with a "truther": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNAaDKZ-SuE


“I have no time to waste on people like you.” :lol: I love Hitch and his slaps. The amount of times I think those very words on a daily basis in incalculable.
Well said.

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 04 Nov 2014 00:32

Summerlander wrote:By the way, there are other ways in which Islam could take over Europe. In fact, Islamists are already insidiously doing it with their mosques and so-called liberalism! They are taking advantage of our multiculturalism. If you can get your hands on "While Europe Slept: How Radical Islam is Destroying the West From Within" by Bruce Bawer, you'll see how.


More evidence that it is a war of bad, dangerous, and contagious ideals.

nesgirl wrote:This happened once before, during WW2, remember? I am thinking we may very well be on the grounds of WW3. Remember how when WW2 was going on, America just sat on the sidelines until Japan got involved? And even then, they mostly fought against Japan. I am wondering if the same thing is going to happen. Except this time, if the Islamic state happens to conquer enough countries, and a natural disaster hits America, they may try to conquer an area in America (power and greed corrupt), and won't hesitate to send their soldiers to attack the area while they are injured so they can conquer the area, which is a very low move, but then again, what do you expect?


It's true that America may sit idle as per World War II, but I'm not entirely sure if the Islamic state would be powerful enough to topple it. I don't know.
Well said.

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nesgirl
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby nesgirl » 04 Nov 2014 02:11

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 04 Nov 2014 02:17

Indeed how can one enjoy eternal bliss knowing that sentient beings endure the worst hell imaginable... an eternal one! What a sadist. And great quote by Robert Bloch. It is true that many of us were shaken and angered by 9/11. But I can't help but think about a deeper, sinister sensation that many of us also felt despite empathising with the victims and their families. Part of us savoured the moment, part of us was glad and feeling privileged at the chance of witnessing such atrocity...

And yet, we hate the perpetrators. The men who thought they were doing God's work...

About WWII, America did eventually help Europe against the Nazis. Let's not forget General Patten and his army. America had a lot to deal with and they had to swiftly put an end to Japanese imperialism as it was closer to home. Japan attacked America directly, remember? (Pearl Harbour.)

Anyway, ISIS does not have the potential to defeat or conquer the USA. The latter, let's not forget, is a superpower protected by two massive bodies of water. (And Canada won't hesitate to back it up.)

This ensueing cold war where America, Europe, and Russia are concerned has more potential to get worse that perhaps a Third War could break out. Who knows! Vladimir Putin is certainly a war criminal using KGB tactics to expand his empire. Russians have regressed to something like the Czarist regime.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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nesgirl
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby nesgirl » 04 Nov 2014 02:35

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 21 May 2015 03:32, edited 2 times in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 04 Nov 2014 02:40

nesgirl wrote:And there is absolutely no afterlife I have heard of that can compare to the sense of freedom you get within a Multimedia project or Lucid Dream. Personally I don't care what kind of Lucid Dream I have, whether someone says it breaks the rules to have in real life (like with the EEG), or even if it is a probability Lucid Dream, I just have them and enjoy having them. It is my time away from reality.


This reminds me of the movie "Vanilla Sky." Basically the idea was that we may progress to the scientific and technological level on which we could suspend a dead person's mind in indefinite cryostasis and feed the subject various electronic stimulation so as to put the subject in a perpetual lucid dream. So the idea is that very wealthy people can buy themselves an eternal afterlife via cryostasis and artificial brain stimulation.
Living forever in a world of your own hypnagogic phantasms. Sounds nice to me (except in the movie, something went wrong with the protagonist's mind and he began living in a perpetual nightmare rather than a perpetual lucid dream).
I think it's scientifically viable. Particularly since there was an scientific article published recently about current breakthroughs in cryostatic technologies. I forget where I saw it though.
Great movie. Except you probably wouldn't be able to enjoy it, nesgirl, because many of its themes deal with sexuality.

Summerlander wrote:Indeed how can one enjoy eternal bliss knowing that sentient beings endure the worst hell imaginable... an eternal one! What a sadist. And great quote by Robert Bloch. It is true that many of us were shaken and angered by 9/11. But I can't help but think about a deeper, sinister sensation that many of us also felt despite empathising with the victims and their families. Part of us savoured the moment, part of us was glad and feeling privileged at the chance of witnessing such atrocity...

And yet, we hate the perpetrators. The men who thought they were doing God's work...

About WWII, America did eventually help Europe against the Nazis. Let's not forget General Patten and his army. America had a lot to deal with and they had to swiftly put an end to Japanese imperialism as it was closer to home. Japan attacked America directly, remember? (Pearl Harbour.)

Anyway, ISIS does not have the potential to defeat or conquer the USA. The latter, let's not forget, is a superpower protected by two massive bodies of water. (And Canada won't hesitate to back it up.)

This ensueing cold war where America, Europe, and Russia are concerned has more potential to get worse that perhaps a Third War could break out. Who knows! Vladimir Putin is certainly a war criminal using KGB tactics to expand his empire. Russians have regressed to something like the Czarist regime.


Very true. America didn't stand by in apathy any more than any of the other great superpowers of the time. Basically all the powerful "good guys" kept feeding Hitler appeasements to get him to stop his expansion. They felt guilty about the events of WWI. Until he hit Poland. Only then did we step in. And America didn't step in until Japan attacked. America did play a pivotal role in Europe, however I think they're given more credit for their actions in the Pacific because they left the actual storming of Germany mostly to other European and Asian powers.
(Fun fact: The United States of America actually technically attacked Japan first. They sunk a miniature Japanese submarine which was swimming near the coasts, preceding the events of Pearl Harbor.)
Well said.


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