Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

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Ryan
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Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Ryan » 09 Feb 2012 21:57

http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/01/27/conceptual-model-of-consciousness/

Contenteo is a member of the Astral Pulse. He posted this there, but I'm trying to spread it around a bit for him.
It's, in my opinion, BANG ON for how consciousness and the non-physical relate.

Let's hear some more opinions. :)
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Snaggle » 10 Feb 2012 06:13

Ryan wrote:http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/01/27/conceptual-model-of-consciousness/

Contenteo is a member of the Astral Pulse. He posted this there, but I'm trying to spread it around a bit for him.
It's, in my opinion, BANG ON for how consciousness and the non-physical relate.

Let's hear some more opinions. :)


I think it's dead wrong on a number of points. Lucid dreams break into sub-types:

0. Normal lucid dream;

1. false awakenings usually start from a normal lucid dream can break into more than one false awakening, break into a new a new false awakening; break into a normal lucid dream or one really wakes up.

2. the SP experience which is clearly a lucid dream and acts like a false awakening in that the subject thinks they really woke up at some point;

3. False OBE/dream OBE;

4. Alien world/ afterlife dream [Robert Monroe's F21 and above should all be dumped in here.

Note any lucid dream can break into any of these sub-types and any sub-type break into another. One could also make a fifth sub-type out of Inception style lucid dreams where one has pre-programmed the dreamscape, but the inception style is often done spontaneously and type 5 and 4 could be the same.

Ryan what does he mean by "training zone".

The heavy dependence on Robert Monroe's cult/system is annoying. Clearly Michael Raduga ripped off Monroe's cult/system when founding his own, but with the more likely idea that the OBE and all astral worlds were dreams.
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Summerlander
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Summerlander » 10 Feb 2012 15:26

The heavy dependence on Robert Monroe's cult/system is annoying. Clearly Michael Raduga ripped off Monroe's cult/system when founding his own, but with the more likely idea that the OBE and all astral worlds were dreams.


This is a misconception. There is nothing remotely alike between what Monroe preached and the practicality that Michael Raduga teaches. Raduga refers to existent states of the brain - nothing else. On the nature of the phase, Raduga states that each practitioner decides what is experienced for themselves. Everyone, of all backgrounds and beliefs are welcome to come and learn the techniques. Raduga is of the opinion that the phase is most likely governed by the subconscious mind but note that he does not state this with 100% certainty. I would also like to emphasise that Raduga does not promote the usage of binaural beats like Monroe did with his Hemisync. Ultimately, the effort should come from the practitioner.

Although you say that Robert Monroe's theories on the afterlife and alien worlds should be dumped, they are theories like any other and they may even be true - we also don't have proof that they are not true. Let's not forget that even scientists find theories useful when attempting to describe the nature of reality - and this is coming from a self-proclaimed sceptic who works with Michael Raduga!!! :mrgreen:

Although I do not agree with most of what Contenteo conveys, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, Snaggle. I also think you are dead wrong on a number of points but I know for a fact that your ignorance would not allow anything that I say to sink in.

Ryan, the fact that he highlighted your name in red just shows his arrogance and if I were you I wouldn't even bother to reply to his post. Feel free to have your say though. :D
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

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Ryan
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Ryan » 10 Feb 2012 19:09

Snaggle wrote:I think it's dead wrong on a number of points. Lucid dreams break into sub-types:

Well, the underlying principle of the model is this:
Awareness is a property of Consciousness, and not the result of the reality you're experiencing.

In essence, through my experiences (also Contenteo and many others), we've found that experiences like Dreams, Lucid Dreams and Astral Projections are derived from the same experience (that of being not in this physical reality), yet what differentiates them is the varying levels of awareness your consciousness can have while not in this physical reality. This is also the reason why people mistakenly believe that they're "different" experiences altogether.

To illustrate: to me a lucid dream isn't a lucid dream, it's an experience where you are lucidly aware. See, it's not something you do, it's something you are. Likewise, an astral projection is an experience where you're astrally aware (meaning you have a full waking conscious awareness, like right now). And to extend that to a dream... it's not a dream, but an experience with a dream awareness.

Does that explain our position a bit better? :)

Also, please don't get me wrong... I'm not trying to convince you to believe what we believe. These are truths we've come to through our direct experiences with the non-physical. Your beliefs might differ, and probably will. It's all good because through differing perspectives we can hopefully find the "whole" as no single person or group has all the answers. :)

0. Normal lucid dream;

1. false awakenings usually start from a normal lucid dream can break into more than one false awakening, break into a new a new false awakening; break into a normal lucid dream or one really wakes up.

2. the SP experience which is clearly a lucid dream and acts like a false awakening in that the subject thinks they really woke up at some point;

3. False OBE/dream OBE;

4. Alien world/ afterlife dream [Robert Monroe's F21 and above should all be dumped in here.

Note any lucid dream can break into any of these sub-types and any sub-type break into another. One could also make a fifth sub-type out of Inception style lucid dreams where one has pre-programmed the dreamscape, but the inception style is often done spontaneously and type 5 and 4 could be the same.

If that classification system works for you, awesome. :)
I used to use something very similar too.

Ryan what does he mean by "training zone".

That's actually something he's going to correct in future versions. The "Training Zone" was a term coined by Frank Kepple formly of the Astral Pulse to describe his astral adventures within what he believed was his subconscious astral adventures. It's safe for you to ignore that particular label for now.

The heavy dependence on Robert Monroe's cult/system is annoying. Clearly Michael Raduga ripped off Monroe's cult/system when founding his own, but with the more likely idea that the OBE and all astral worlds were dreams.

As Summerlander pointed out, what Raduga teaches isn't the Monroe Focus Model. This model is a conceptualization of how several different systems all fit together into the range of consciousness we call non-physical awareness. Raduga's methods and ideas aren't represented in this graph at all.

Thank you for the opinions expressed. I hope I did clear up some muddied waters. :)
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Snaggle » 11 Feb 2012 10:00

Summerlander wrote:
The heavy dependence on Robert Monroe's cult/system is annoying. Clearly Michael Raduga ripped off Monroe's cult/system when founding his own, but with the more likely idea that the OBE and all astral worlds were dreams.


This is a misconception. There is nothing remotely alike between what Monroe preached and the practicality that Michael Raduga teaches. Raduga refers to existent states of the brain - nothing else. On the nature of the phase, Raduga states that each practitioner decides what is experienced for themselves. Everyone, of all backgrounds and beliefs are welcome to come and learn the techniques. Raduga is of the opinion that the phase is most likely governed by the subconscious mind but note that he does not state this with 100% certainty. I would also like to emphasise that Raduga does not promote the usage of binaural beats like Monroe did with his Hemisync. Ultimately, the effort should come from the practitioner.


Summerland as I read Raduga's book, I already stated what the differences are. Raduga copied Monroe's idea that OBE happen during sleep and his idea that they happen out of SP and took the term "phase" for the state from Monroe. Also formed a for profit cult around OBE like Monroe. I would say he imitated him a lot.

Summerland wrote:Although you say that Robert Monroe's theories on the afterlife and alien worlds should be dumped, they are theories like any other and they may even be true - we also don't have proof that they are not true. Let's not forget that even scientists find theories useful when attempting to describe the nature of reality - and this is coming from a self-proclaimed sceptic who works with Michael Raduga!!! :mrgreen:


I did not say "dumped". I said dumped into lucid dreams about alien worlds and afterlife [realms]. They might be theory worthy if they agreed with other astral accounts such as Swedenborg's. creating "theories" about reality from OBE out of dreams is not exactly kosher intellectually.



Summerland wrote:Ryan, the fact that he highlighted your name in red just shows his arrogance and if I were you I wouldn't even bother to reply to his post. Feel free to have your say though. :D


Could you explain this Summerland? I highlight in red people's names only to make remarks directed at them obvious and easy for them to find. How is that arrogant?
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And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
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Ryan
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Ryan » 11 Feb 2012 17:29

Snaggle wrote:Summerland as I read Raduga's book, I already stated what the differences are. Raduga copied Monroe's idea that OBE happen during sleep and his idea that they happen out of SP and took the term "phase" for the state from Monroe. Also formed a for profit cult around OBE like Monroe. I would say he imitated him a lot.

Isn't imitation the highest form of flattery? :)

I did not say "dumped". I said dumped into lucid dreams about alien worlds and afterlife [realms]. They might be theory worthy if they agreed with other astral accounts such as Swedenborg's. creating "theories" about reality from OBE out of dreams is not exactly kosher intellectually.

Actually, I think it's logical to assume that a good portion of "alien abduction" stories could be Sleep Paralysis or Projection related phenomena.

Could you explain this Summerland? I highlight in red people's names only to make remarks directed at them obvious and easy for them to find. How is that arrogant?

Yeah, I kinda assumed that as well. :)
Certainly not arrogant in the slightest.
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Peter » 11 Feb 2012 23:17

I have just had a look at this model and it is interesting. The first point is that I have always thought the 3D darkness that I first get to in a WILD an the images I see are diferant than in what I call the void and this model shows these as two states. I can agree with this as the look, feel and images are different.

I also tend to think that lucid dreams and vivid or semi lucid dreams are where we learn the skills of dream life. We may create the content or have it created for us but we are making the choices as far as what we do and how we respect the dream characters and more so the aware one that I call watchers.

So at first glance this is quite cool
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Ryan
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Ryan » 12 Feb 2012 01:02

Thanks Peter!

I'll show Contenteo this thread and see if I can't get him to provide some of his own input too.

There are also some slight changes to the model which happening... as with any model, it'll never be "done". LoL

The Conscious and Unconscious sections need an overlap to show the "semi conscious" lucid dreaming state of mind and there needs to be a note stating that awareness can move not only upwards, but downwards as well.
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Summerlander » 13 Feb 2012 03:07

OMG you guys are so wrong in so many ways I don't know where to start. Feel free to email me and I'll be happy to give all of you lessons on these matters as I work closely with Michael Raduga. Snaggle, Raduga does not use the term "phase" in the same context as Monroe. Read SOBT and you will see why. Maybe you are not aware of this but the word "phase" can mean many things. It is also used in physics and bears no relation in what we discuss here. Educate yourself...please!! :mrgreen:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Ryan
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Ryan » 13 Feb 2012 05:45

Peter wrote:I have just had a look at this model and it is interesting. The first point is that I have always thought the 3D darkness that I first get to in a WILD an the images I see are diferant than in what I call the void and this model shows these as two states. I can agree with this as the look, feel and images are different.

I had another thought about your post as well, Peter.

Yes, the 3D Darkness is what I encounter too while meditating towards a projection. It's definitely a different and separate occurence from "The Void". I've let Contenteo know that some further thought might need to be put into that.

If you're a Monroe Focus person... the 3D Darkness would be Focus 12, and "The Void" would be Focus 21/22. I experience the Void usually as I'm coming into and out of Lucid/Astral Experiences. It's a brief few seconds when everything fades to black/darkness and I find myself either back in bed or back in the non-physical reality.

I also tend to think that lucid dreams and vivid or semi lucid dreams are where we learn the skills of dream life. We may create the content or have it created for us but we are making the choices as far as what we do and how we respect the dream characters and more so the aware one that I call watchers.

That's an interesting theory. Learning the dream-life skills (I'd probably call them non-physical skills) is something I picked up early in my life as Lucid Dreaming is what I've been doing for as long as I can remember. The fun stuff like learning to fly took me a very long time to figure out. I spent a lot of time flapping my arms... ROFL

There's an interesting point to make here in that if you can retain enough control and clarity over your consciousness while in this state, you can visit other realities as well. You can always try asking out lout for "something new to experience" and see what happens. :)

So at first glance this is quite cool

Thanks! I pointed Contenteo to this thread so he might be able to join in. I love how this is progressing. :)
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