A Temporal Friend

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deschainXIX
Posts: 922
Joined: 07 Aug 2013 18:18
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby deschainXIX » 05 Dec 2014 04:24

The problem I have with HAGART's proposal can be approached from two different directions. The first is that you would think scientists of high enough caliber to construct a time machine would have the foresight to know that as soon as they finished building it, everything was going to change. Everything. They would probably brace themselves for anything and everything, from looking out the (one-way glass) window and seeing Tyranosaurus Rexes chewing on cars to--yes--time travelers from the future appearing out of thin air.

The second way of approaching it is that one would also think that the government(s) of the future would know all about the governments of the past and how they would react if they sent back temporal agents. Future governments would be aware of how past governments would treat and/or welcome men of the future (either from experience--they would theoretically know instantly if their mission was accomplished once they decided to execute said mission--or otherwise), and would proceed accordingly.

There are other things I'm not thinking of, I'm sure. But this time traveling business will drive you insane with its endless paradoxes and self-contradictions and illogicalities. It's why time travel NEVER works in science fiction. There always ends up being some plot-hole large enough to send an army of Terminators into the past through. ;)

That first paragraph is the reason I don't think any sane scientist would attempt to build a time machine. They would know that as soon as they switch that thing on, everything goes to hell...

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Well said.

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nesgirl
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Joined: 25 May 2014 23:10

Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby nesgirl » 05 Dec 2014 05:28

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 20 May 2015 05:06, edited 1 time in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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Summerlander
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Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby Summerlander » 05 Dec 2014 10:30

I hope they are not so stupid as to think that beliefs can be banned. You cannot force people to not believe in things using force, only get them to pretend they don't believe. Banning would also encourage the pious to be fiercer and fight back. Do drug bans stop drug-dealling? Nope. The only way to get rid of silly beliefs is by exposing how ridiculous they are and by offering people plausible alternatives. Education and raising consciousness is the way forward.

The same is true the other way around. You cannot force people to believe in something for which you have no evidence. But people can pretend to believe for their own safety. In places like Saudi Arabia, atheism is punishable by death. They fail to realise, of course, that beliefs are not picked by people. Either a proposition resonates with you or it doesn't. And things are either found to be true or false. Or, in the case of the Biblical or Quranic god, ridiculous.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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R99
Posts: 409
Joined: 14 Nov 2011 07:53
Location: Where Fiction collides Reality

Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby R99 » 05 Dec 2014 17:03

Summerlander wrote:The names are really strange. Fuck knows how much things have changed, progressed or devolved. And I bet the rate at which things changed all the way to 2212 isn't comparable to gradual historical change up until now. I think deschainXIX made some good points and pointed out very relevant facts.

If we grant that Enra Traz is a time traveller, which would mean that our current physicists know fuck all and we much less, we also have to consider Hagart's scenario. What if the powers that be of this time are after Enra et al?

This is getting really exciting! Do you guys reckon this could make the Forum more popular? Do you reckon this could be as big as the John Titor case? Fuck, we could even get mentioned on Wiki: "members of WOLD by the names of Summerlander, Hagart, deschainXIX, nesgirl etc. were the first to question potential time traveller..." :-)

Enra Traz, you are welcome and you are precious, my friend. I'm starting to believe you...I believe! I believe! I have faith in you! Hurry up and post! Your answers are divine! Give us your revelation! Grant us your prophecies! All hail Enra Traz, the time traveller! :-D

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Wow, i didnt know, summer is going to believe her that easily. am wondering........ deschain's suspicion against summer
I see the Truth now.

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HAGART
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Location: CANADA

Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby HAGART » 05 Dec 2014 17:13

I'm no Quen Lev, and only have a primitive, pastling understanding of physics, space, and time. So bare with my ignorant and 'midieval' world view. But something doesn't add up and I will explain my confusion.

Summer... err I mean Enra Traz wrote:My time machine includes a mechanism similar to an Alcubierre drive which creates a negative density field around the temporal pod. This density, of course, is below the vacuum of space. Once the pod is propelled to move in space, it will not. It will move in time instead.


Here's the problem. The Earth is moving. Not only is it rotating, but it is in an orbit around the sun, and our solar system too is orbiting the center of the galaxy and our galaxy as well is traveling. The Earth is never in the same place twice. If you ONLY travel through time, and not space, you will wind up in the middle of empty space that happened to be in those exact x,y,z coordinates 198 years previously.

Or worse yet, in the middle of an asteroid. So what happens when you appear in the middle of a solid object? How does the universe even make room for you? Let's scale it up and exaggerate this so it's easier to see. If you can send one person through time, and a whole team, what if you send 100 people, 1000, an entire planet, an entire universe through time into the past? You can spend as much time as you want doing it in your time, and it will all appear at the exact same moment in the past. Where does your universe and time line go? What happens to all that 'stuff' when it appears here?

This confuses my primitive brain.



(By the way, I have some doubts that Enra Traz is Summerlander, but we are all starting to become suspicious aren't we, R99? Neither of them seem offended to be accused of being each other anyway, so no apologies here if I'm wrong.)

This is an interesting thread because there are two mysteries to solve and question: Time travel, and the possibility that this thread was an inside job. I wonder if DeschainXIX might be the culprit because he was the first to accuse Sumerlander and perhaps did so to throw us off. Whoever smelt it, perhaps dealt it. Then again, Summerlander denied it so he may have supplied it. Then again I just made a rhyme so perhaps I did the crime. :lol:

Only time will tell.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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nesgirl
Posts: 1278
Joined: 25 May 2014 23:10

Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby nesgirl » 06 Dec 2014 00:40

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 20 May 2015 05:06, edited 1 time in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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HAGART
Posts: 3179
Joined: 05 Jan 2012 21:09
Location: CANADA

Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby HAGART » 06 Dec 2014 01:00

You are saying that you are in cahoots with Summerlander! Maybe nesgirl has been Summerlander this whole time!

Just kidding. This can easily become a pointless 'Witch Hunt', which can make us paranoid, so I agree we should refrain from any speculations.

(But I'll be waiting for a slip up... I'm becoming obsessed with this case!) :lol:
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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deschainXIX
Posts: 922
Joined: 07 Aug 2013 18:18
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby deschainXIX » 06 Dec 2014 01:15

But what if ... ALL of us are the same person? One man, posing as separate and unique internet personalities to entertain you, HAGART? Mind = blown.

:D I know that I'm not Enra Traz. I know HAGART isn't. I know that nesgirl most probably isn't. Not sure about Summerlander. I'm doubting myself on that point a little--but it certainly seems likely.

HAGART and I will be like those two partner detectives who retire with that one case they never solved...

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Well said.

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nesgirl
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Joined: 25 May 2014 23:10

Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby nesgirl » 06 Dec 2014 01:36

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 20 May 2015 05:07, edited 1 time in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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deschainXIX
Posts: 922
Joined: 07 Aug 2013 18:18
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby deschainXIX » 06 Dec 2014 01:39

Ooh. That's quite clever. Never occurred to me. It's a possibility too.

I really feel sorry for Summerlander at this point. I feel like a traitor haha.

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Well said.


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