A Temporal Friend

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nesgirl
Posts: 1278
Joined: 25 May 2014 23:10

Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby nesgirl » 06 Dec 2014 07:19

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 20 May 2015 05:05, edited 1 time in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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HAGART
Posts: 3179
Joined: 05 Jan 2012 21:09
Location: CANADA

Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby HAGART » 06 Dec 2014 07:35

Ah, now it's lucid dream related. You, yourself, nesgirl, admitted some dream characters have a mind of their own beyond our will. (Your reply to my lucid dream, "Hagart Dream: The full story")

We all do. Don't be afraid of ridicule, heck, I bring it up all the time! I'm not afraid of this phenomenon.

I don't care what people think. I wonder what Enra Traz will say from the future. I'm sure she and everyone else from her time period is open minded.

If not, we are.

There is no ridicule when someone puts their heart on the line and shares a few lucid dreams. I did. It's hard. Nobody can attack your dreams, ever, for they are subjective. If they try, they have to come through me! (*cracks knuckles to display machoness)

You got my back nesgirl. Everyone is on your side when it comes to sharing your lucid dreams here on this forum.

[That was completely off-topic, and I apologies for discussing lucid dreaming in this thread. ;) Sometimes acting ridiculous can suddenly become serious.]
Last edited by HAGART on 06 Dec 2014 18:36, edited 1 time in total.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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deschainXIX
Posts: 922
Joined: 07 Aug 2013 18:18
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby deschainXIX » 06 Dec 2014 17:17

The idea that other people are real, sentient individuals who think and observe and can feel happiness and suffering just like you do is called "theory of mind." Children naturally develop this around the ages 4-6. It's when empathy and consideration for others as human beings just like you starts to develop. Theory of mind is impossible to confirm; that's why it is called a theory. Everyone COULD BE a cardboard pop-up of some kind. You wouldnt be able to change other people's minds and change the nature of reality, because of the naturally-arising theory of mind. All of this goes back to the "brain in a vat" thought experiment and Plato's thoughts about nothingness. These are rather dangerous truths--solipsism has generally bad implications, the primary one being the fact that you could go kill someone and it wouldn't matter because you yourself are the only confirmable thing. One has to sort of ignore all of these things.

But I do quite literally believe in nothing.

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Well said.

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HAGART
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Location: CANADA

Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby HAGART » 06 Dec 2014 18:50

I feel bad about my last post. I shouldn't have brought it up here, and perhaps we (the regular users) are starting to hijack this thread.
DeschainXIX wrote:...at this point she definitely thinks we've been cooped up together for far too long and have gone insane.
INDEED.

I know what you're saying, Deschain, about theory of mind, for I too have considered that possibility, but didn't have a name for it.

Anyway, despite my ridiculous posts, I made an interesting point yesterday about time travel and how the Earth is constantly moving. I wonder how Enra Traz will get out of that one.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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deschainXIX
Posts: 922
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Location: Virginia, USA

Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby deschainXIX » 06 Dec 2014 18:55

nesgirl wrote:Sorry, but I don't understand what happiness is. I only understand what pessimism is and what this mood in the YouTube video represents and it doesn't represent happiness, I can tell you that ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NPc08-BWvg )


A thought experiment to demonstrate the meaninglessness of happiness: If we scientifically and medically developed a means to artificially increase levels of dopamine and serotonin and the various neurochemicals responsible for happiness (I certainly don't know what they are; there's probably a quite complicated little cocktail required to produce happiness), then you would be happy all the time. There is no room for dispute on this point. If you had a little dopamine-producing machine in your brain, you would be absolutely happy no matter what.

Happiness has no significance. So why would you ever choose NOT be happy? Bob Marley had it right: "Don't worry, be happy." Achieving this can be difficult, but there is no significance to being sad or happy other than adjusting your own level of misery in the brief span of time you have on the planet before you are forced (usually quite violently) to leave the party. :P

Don't feel bad, HAGART. I did really enjoy what you said about the earth constantly in motion through space. That was quite remarkable. It's something I have truly never considered when thinking about all the problems with time travel. Always nice when someone says something no one else has thought of.
Well said.

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nesgirl
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Joined: 25 May 2014 23:10

Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby nesgirl » 06 Dec 2014 21:01

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 20 May 2015 05:05, edited 1 time in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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deschainXIX
Posts: 922
Joined: 07 Aug 2013 18:18
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby deschainXIX » 06 Dec 2014 21:21

Okie dokie.

But as far as the science of the happiness-machine, that wasn't the point. It's a hypothetical. Suppose you simply had some sort of machine that artificially maintained a "neurochemical homeostasis" to constantly produce resilience, contentment, and happiness. I think it was in "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" by Philip K Dick that they had this console called a mood organ that could alter neurochemicals to induce any feeling you key in.

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Well said.

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HAGART
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Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby HAGART » 06 Dec 2014 21:29

I think the human mind would grow accustomed to being happy all the time and it would simply become normal. Then you aren't happy anymore. I also think chemically the brain would grow accustomed as well at the physical level the same way drug addicts grow a tolerance.

Like time-travel, absolute happiness has a few paradoxes as well. How do you know you are happy if you were never sad? You need something to compare it to. Any animal (or android) that is capable of laughing must also cry.

Imagine being in one of LaBerg's dream machines from the future for eternity where every desire is satisfied. You would become use to it and nothing will satisfy you anymore because it takes work and effort to get a feeling of accomplishment.

Then again, a void state of pure euphoria intrigues me, and the passage of time would be irrelevant. Hard to imagine though...

And BTW, I actually enjoyed that video, nesgirl. I want to be as happy as that character! :lol:
(He's a sociopath though)
Last edited by HAGART on 06 Dec 2014 21:41, edited 1 time in total.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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deschainXIX
Posts: 922
Joined: 07 Aug 2013 18:18
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby deschainXIX » 06 Dec 2014 21:39

Again, the point is to demonstrate that our happiness is merely the result of a few special juices squirting and the right organic cogs turning. Happiness is the result of brain state. And that's why there's no objective significance to happiness. So why say that "The world is too terrible for me to be happy in it" as nesgirl says? Anyway... that was my point. Just wanted to clarify that.

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Well said.

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nesgirl
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Joined: 25 May 2014 23:10

Re: A Temporal Friend

Postby nesgirl » 06 Dec 2014 22:20

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 20 May 2015 05:05, edited 1 time in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.


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