Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

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Peter
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Peter » 13 Feb 2012 09:07

Summerlander - I can’t be wrong as I am describing what I see and what I feel not what I think is happening or what it all means and so this is opinion and not claimed as fact. So in contrast to most people I don’t have any solid beliefs at all and that make everyone’s opinions interesting to me.

I have your few hundred page manual, have read it and will do so again so no issues there. If you want to send me more info just PM and I will be happy to have a look at it.

These states in my experience feel different, I have experienced them all many times over approximately 40 years and have had the privilege of doing this alone and develop various skills and become aware of subtle differences in many states that I experience
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Peter
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Peter » 13 Feb 2012 09:15

If you're a Monroe Focus person... the 3D Darkness would be Focus 12, and "The Void" would be Focus 21/22. I experience the Void usually as I'm coming into and out of Lucid/Astral Experiences. It's a brief few seconds when everything fades to black/darkness and I find myself either back in bed or back in the non-physical reality.


its only the last few years I have collected and read a lot of works on LD, Monroe among them so before that I just pondered about what was going on without really putting any of it into a process or part of a chain. There is so much that is common in anyone claiming to understand the states and how they link up and I suspect that at times there are bits of infomation left out of models so they work better. That being said I am really keen to read and absorb anything I can get my hands on and am awed by the depth of understanding by a few key people and their willingness to share it on these forums.

That's an interesting theory. Learning the dream-life skills (I'd probably call them non-physical skills) is something I picked up early in my life as Lucid Dreaming is what I've been doing for as long as I can remember. The fun stuff like learning to fly took me a very long time to figure out. I spent a lot of time flapping my arms... ROFL


They are non-physical skills for sure. I also put breaking of fear as a skill and say entering portals without expectation as a skill so they cover a wide range as the dream world is as much a challange for the mind in acceptance as it is for the dream body and simply getting around
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Summerlander
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Summerlander » 13 Feb 2012 13:05

Peter wrote:Summerlander - I can’t be wrong as I am describing what I see and what I feel not what I think is happening or what it all means and so this is opinion and not claimed as fact. So in contrast to most people I don’t have any solid beliefs at all and that make everyone’s opinions interesting to me.

I have your few hundred page manual, have read it and will do so again so no issues there. If you want to send me more info just PM and I will be happy to have a look at it.

These states in my experience feel different, I have experienced them all many times over approximately 40 years and have had the privilege of doing this alone and develop various skills and become aware of subtle differences in many states that I experience


It's natural that you feel this way at the beginning as do many novices. but I deal with many volunteers and several experiments at the OOBE Research Center. It is pointed out in SOBT that what you have expressed is quite common at the beginning, but read on and you will understand why it is all the same state. The phase state of the brain has many levels - some closer to wakefulness (where there's a "danger" of fouling) and others closer to the opposite side of the spectrum where one might slip into a dream and even fall asleep (lose consciousness completely). There are algorithms you can learn and techniques you can put into practice to get the optimal phase experience (which will be deep and long-lasting). This has been verified by practice and not assumptions or ideas based on empty theories.

It only feels different because you believe them to be different. Trust me, I've been there. I loved the New Age view when I first started and thus have a similar background. But I have also been one to question and my very nature has led me to take a pragmatic stance. Today I work with Michael Raduga in bringing empirical evidence in regards to this phenomenon to the world.

As for the others, I'm a pragmatist, so sue me if you don't like this approach but it really is the best one to have. Otherwise you are just accepting everything you hear out there and incorporating it into your experiences. The mind is simply making it real for you.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

Snaggle
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Snaggle » 13 Feb 2012 13:55

Summerlander wrote:
It's natural that you feel this way at the beginning as do many novices. but I deal with many volunteers and several experiments at the OOBE Research Center. It is pointed out in SOBT that what you have expressed is quite common at the beginning, but read on and you will understand why it is all the same state. The phase state of the brain has many levels - some closer to wakefulness (where there's a "danger" of fouling) and others closer to the opposite side of the spectrum where one might slip into a dream and even fall asleep (lose consciousness completely). There are algorithms you can learn and techniques you can put into practice to get the optimal phase experience (which will be deep and long-lasting). This has been verified by practice and not assumptions or ideas based on empty theories.

It only feels different because you believe them to be different.


Summerland This is one of the problems I have with you, Peter, Robert Monroe and me have related experience verified things and you always dismiss them if they don't agree with Raduga dogma and state that they're created by suggestion which is interesting as Mr. Rainbow's techniques are mainly self-hypnosis/suggestology techniques or incubation techniques.

As for Monroe's use of the word "phase" they seem to use it both the way you do and to express concentrating on one of their focus states to move away from the physical. I'm happy to be corrected on this as you're certainly more familiar with your system and Monroe's than I am.
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Ryan, Peter and others

I'm curious about your OBE. Do you always do them out of a condition of sleep? Are you always doubles of yourself? Are you always just one point of consciousness?
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Ryan
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Ryan » 13 Feb 2012 18:24

Snaggle wrote: Summerland This is one of the problems I have with you, Peter, Robert Monroe and me have related experience verified things and you always dismiss them if they don't agree with Raduga dogma and state that they're created by suggestion which is interesting as Mr. Rainbow's techniques are mainly self-hypnosis/suggestology techniques or incubation techniques.

That is a very accurate assessment of Summerlander. :)

His inability to open his mind to any possibility that isn't written in Raduga's book is the #1 reason I refuse to further participate on Raduga's forum. That, and he spams every post there with this form of rhetoric that it becomes overwhelming and completely unbearable to participate.

Raduga's theories are nice. But one has to realize that they're JUST THEORIES. Putting all your eggs in one dogmatic basket is never a good idea these days.

I plan on fully ignoring Summerlander from now on. I suggest everyone do the same... but meh. It's your choice.

ANYHOO...

Ryan, Peter and others

I'm curious about your OBE. Do you always do them out of a condition of sleep? Are you always doubles of yourself? Are you always just one point of consciousness?

As I've mentioned before, I'm a life long lucid dreamer. I'm 32 now and I've been having lucid dreams for, literally, as long as I can remember. It's only been within the last 2 - 3 years that I've discovered the connection between them and astral projection.

My projections come out of mostly spontaneous lucid awareness experiences. In general terms, I randomly become aware while dreaming. I do have conscious exits via meditation, but due to not having much time, I don't get that as much as I'd hope.

Doubles of myself? As in do I perceive myself as my physical body while out? Mostly, yes.
From time to time I have no body though, and I retain that "point of consciousness" as well. It's been varied over the years.
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Peter
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Peter » 13 Feb 2012 19:36

It's natural that you feel this way at the beginning as do many novices


40 Plus years and a novice - I must be a slow learner. i will sent you a link to an interview I have just completed when it is published.

(which will be deep and long-lasting).


Max dream time ever was hours ? This is fully lucid and half the night so could no be deeper and longer lasting

It is not me that uses terms such as phase or clasifies in any way, read my posts again. I describe experiances only and will describe where my experiances are simlar to parts of various models but never claim to fit them into any model. This is very limiting and assumes we know more that we do are reeks of a time when we just knew the world was flat and that we were the center of everything
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Peter
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Peter » 13 Feb 2012 19:40

Ryan, Peter and others

I'm curious about your OBE. Do you always do them out of a condition of sleep? Are you always doubles of yourself? Are you always just one point of consciousness?


They are either in a WILD attempt and assited by use of a small dose of G or in the afternoons while relaxing in bed or on the floor etc.

The contrast is that in the WILD attempts I need to have been up long enough to be awake and in the afternoons I need to be very tired and I use the same process either way. I have had more OBE by far in the afternoons.
Almost all of the time I am an energy body at the start

Just read Ryans post and yes at times I get to exist as a point of consiousness, this is almost always in the void and at stages during the dream. Once on attempting a WILD (unassisted by supplements) I experianced this at onset, it was waves of in and out of this state a few times. Odd sensation but one I will repeat if I can sometime
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Ryan
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Ryan » 13 Feb 2012 20:58

Peter wrote:They are non-physical skills for sure. I also put breaking of fear as a skill and say entering portals without expectation as a skill so they cover a wide range as the dream world is as much a challange for the mind in acceptance as it is for the dream body and simply getting around

Learning to overcome fear. Yes, that's a huge one... I find that fear is probably the #1 reason people have problems when they try to learn astral projection. That and expectations. Both of which you've seemed to have licked. :)
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Snaggle » 14 Feb 2012 13:31

I plan on fully ignoring Summerlander from now on. I suggest everyone do the same... but meh. It's your choice.- Ryan


Is this what you do to everyone you disagree with? Shunning Summerland seems bad. He does make useful posts sometimes and is an active poster. One does not have to be friends or like someone to talk to them. I don't dislike Summerland and my criticism was of his practice not of him.
"There is only one God and his name is Death.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel

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Peter
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Re: Contenteo's Conceptual Model of Consciousness

Postby Peter » 14 Feb 2012 18:36

Is this what you do to everyone you disagree with? Shunning Summerland seems bad. He does make useful posts sometimes and is an active poster. One does not have to be friends or like someone to talk to them. I don't dislike Summerland and my criticism was of his practice not of him.


agree, lets post our experiances, thoughts, questions and agree to disagree and stay open minded. As I say everytime I am wrong I learn something and them I simply change my mind and I am right once again. No ego invloved and no issues. We are all part of a unique group with interesting skills so how about we move forward and advance out interests.
The friction is good and the emotion is good just dont let it take over and turn the posts into a battle field

Peter
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born


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