False Awakening or OBE?

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Enra Traz
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby Enra Traz » 05 Jan 2015 11:25

A frequency? Can you prove it scientifically? Can you demonstrate its existence objectively? Cuz physicists have been smashing protons at the large hadron collider and found many subatomic, fundamental elements - besides the Higgs boson - but no astral particle so far... :-D

You can even observe the de brogie wave function emission of photons from sodium atoms without the aid of an electron microscope just by sprinkling a flame with salt. Observe the yellow tinge which indicates the quantum mechanical reaction between sodium and the highly charged atoms of the flame...

Atoms exist. You can observe them. Dark matter also exists otherwise galaxies would fly apart in the universe (gravity is not strong enough). Already there are hints that WIMPs (the stuff dark matter is made of) have been indirectly captured here on Earth but scientists like to make sure before saying "for sure." Dark matter definitely exists. The problem is that the atoms of baryonic matter vibrate so violently that it is difficult to see when a WIMP has collided with them.

As for this hypothetical astral realm... not a shred of evidence. And yet, you lot blindly believe that it definitely exists... because you've had dreams, because ectrochemical reactions in your brains made you hallucinate something in your sleep...

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DesertExplorer
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby DesertExplorer » 05 Jan 2015 16:23

Thank you nesgirl!!
Life is hard. Then you die. Then they throw dirt in your face. Then the worms eat you. Be grateful it happens in that order.

~David Gerrold

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Summerlander
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby Summerlander » 05 Jan 2015 20:46

Just as I thought. No refutation or any sort of explanatory retaliation from New Agers. And the sort of answers we see here, on there part, is just incoherent babble or attempts at witty rhetoric with the hidden purpose of avoiding answering simple questions that require logical answers.

And, of course, sometimes with the added intention of attempting to emulate enigmatic Hollywood stars. :-)

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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DesertExplorer
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby DesertExplorer » 05 Jan 2015 23:56

Friend, please.. I cannot express to you how much I would like to discuss the matter, but you give me nothing to contradict with. I do not know, you do not know, end of story.

You talk about Hollywood stars and new agers trying to avoid simple questions that you think you ask, while I tell you my opinions. I have written nothing witty or rhetoric. If you do not understand something, please feel free to tell me what this specifically is.

If you want me to answer to something specific, then go ahead and ask.
Life is hard. Then you die. Then they throw dirt in your face. Then the worms eat you. Be grateful it happens in that order.

~David Gerrold

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Summerlander
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby Summerlander » 08 Jan 2015 21:41

I already asked, my friend. And you failed to answer coherently. So I'm not wasting my time with someone who is incapable of laying his cards on the table.

You made a tall claim and failed to back it with evidence. You misread my last post, too. I did not talk about Hollywood stars either but I did allude to people trying to emulate them. (Want me to be specific here?)

You are also clearly misguided about the afterlife's probability being a 50-50 scenario. Look around and smell the biological realities that afflict us. One does not need to delve deeply into the realm of neuroscience to see how fragile minds can be. All mental faculties, as I pointed out before, are excisable via CNS damage. Just ask the families of those affected and they'll tell you how parts or the whole of their loved ones have died. There is no room for agnosticism when you examine these realities.

And yet you insist that the fairytale has a 50% chance. Where are you getting this crap? Wishful thinking?

But you are right about one thing. You have written nothing witty or rhetorical here. You couldn't if you tried...:-)

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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nesgirl
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby nesgirl » 09 Jan 2015 03:38

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 21 May 2015 02:14, edited 1 time in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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Summerlander
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby Summerlander » 09 Jan 2015 12:36

LMAO! :lol:

Don't worry, nesgirl. None of it is true anyway. Death is pretty final. To put it simply: death means death. :mrgreen:

You will be free of conscious experience one day, which, of course, includes the sense of self. Some old folks say, "I'm getting tired of this shit" to which I reply, "It won't be long now." :mrgreen:

The chemical bonds between their atoms and molecules, which are vital for life, will one day be severed. The atomic conglomerates that once undergirded the ambulant organism will disperse and the identity of that cherished whole will be no more.

The cessation of being. Nirvana on a plate. You won't even miss this world. You couldn't if you tried. 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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DesertExplorer
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby DesertExplorer » 09 Jan 2015 17:15

Oh, I apologize about that. I thought you were actually trolling, questioning the exact location of a non-physical realm. If you notice past posts you will see an answer from taniaaust1 telling you that is a frequency. But, it seems that you want to see it sitting there, waiting for proof.

I would like to show it to you, but I'll have to kill you and you will not be able to tell the story. :lol:

The only proof you can find is by yourself! Go and try meditation techniques. It will help you understand. Other than that, I cannot help you. But, we both know that you will keep saying the same thing, so never mind.

And if you think that LD is the same thing with meditation, you've got another thing coming..
Life is hard. Then you die. Then they throw dirt in your face. Then the worms eat you. Be grateful it happens in that order.

~David Gerrold

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Summerlander
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby Summerlander » 09 Jan 2015 20:03

Fallacious in your posts as always. Neither meditation nor lucid dreams are evidence of another frequency of reality. They are products of measurable electrochemical activity inside your head. Your ignorance of established scientific facts betray you, friend. If I thought that Tania had answered my question I wouldn't have asked it again.

But now I think YOU are trolling... or you are just oxymoronic by nature. First you said the only way for me to discover this frequency is if I am murdered by you. Then you ask me to try meditation which I have in the past with profound mental results - but none of such numinous experiences constitute proof, of course. (So now there is, apparently, a way to discover it whilst alive - according to you again.)

So, in the same way that you assert the existence of a frequency without evidence, so I dismiss it without evidence. To help you understand the logical pragmatism necessitated by scientific enquiry, envisage this preposterous scenario: Physicists at CERN aver the existence of the Higgs field as they saw the mass-bestowing boson in a dream.

If I am repetitive here, it is only because I insist on the evidence for what you claim and refuse to swallow this fantastic notion on blind faith. Nobody should be expected to do this. Where is your proof? Show me. Exactly, you have none, so stop telling people that their deceased loved ones live on.

This screams of religiosity. You are like a preacher telling whoever listens that you know for sure about something (supernatural) which is beyond their reach. And, of course, the self-proclaimed master would claim privileged access, wouldn't he? :-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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DesertExplorer
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby DesertExplorer » 09 Jan 2015 21:24

Ha! No, you didn't.. (and hey, if you think that meditation is that simple, go and tell those who practice it for decades to try LD, because it's more easy. ;) )

Anyway, I am sorry that I am not very persuasive and logical about the after-death thing. But you are not, either, so please be careful of what you are saying, because some people might actually get convinced and close the subject in their minds (and it is not a subject that has closed, maybe you don't want to, but scientists still do and try to find out about it).

And please, don't try to fill the space of your posts by calling me fallacious, ignorant or my opinions like crap, because it is really too hard for me to read your posts clearly, without emotions clouding my judgement and you get me in danger judging your opinions in a way I wouldn't normally do.

You really have to respect other people's opinions to get their respect. In my case, I respect you anyway, because I have read many posts by you, I agree with most of them and you are the person who helped me to achieve the first most clear LD I have until now and remember so vividly. So, I am thankful..

And I wasn't trolling about what I said to you. It was just a joke and I am sorry if you mistook it for a bad one. I actually thought that you were trolling, because you asked about something that you had already answered to yourself a long time ago and now you were ready to reject any answer, so there was no need of that and that's why I made fun about it. You ought to believe me, I didn't want to sound witty, really.

So, that's that and now I insist to let it go if you are willing too and talk about LD and only before Rebecca locks this thread, because of the turn of the subject. :)

But, seriously if you want me to continue about this, I will. I love opposition, anyway..
If not, well I wanted you to answer to some questions I have about the last lucid dream I had, because reading any close discussions in the forum didn't really help.

If neither, PEACE.. :D
Last edited by DesertExplorer on 09 Jan 2015 22:24, edited 1 time in total.
Life is hard. Then you die. Then they throw dirt in your face. Then the worms eat you. Be grateful it happens in that order.

~David Gerrold


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