nesgirl and Summerlander

For all other chat which isn't directly related to lucid dreaming and the world of sleep and dreams.
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deschainXIX
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Re: nesgirl and Summerlander

Postby deschainXIX » 10 Jan 2015 17:10

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead."
--Thomas Paine

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Well said.

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Summerlander
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Re: nesgirl and Summerlander

Postby Summerlander » 10 Jan 2015 17:23

Love Thomas Paine and the quote. I've read his "Age of Reason" and couldn't believe I was reading the book of a man who lived about three centuries ago. He was so ahead of his time and so on the side of enlightenment, righteousness and reason. Plus he practically was the first man to use the words "United States of America" in a speech of opposition against King George III.

If Paine miraculously lived to see this day and age he would have undoubtedly have become an atheist. (He was in fact a deist, which is the more defensible way of believing in a god or deity than theism.)

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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HAGART
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Re: nesgirl and Summerlander

Postby HAGART » 10 Jan 2015 20:34

Nesgirl doesn't know it but she is perpetrating the very thing she despises, telling others their sexuality is wrong and should be more like hers. All the negative feelings she feels others have placed on her asexuality over the years is forced on to sexuals in her dreams and sometimes even here on the forum. I'm not offended though, and understand it's cathartic for you to flip it around, but think about what you are doing. You may have inadvertently become what you hate others doing to you. Unfortunately some people in this world, when faced with the facts, harden up and become even more adamant about what they believe. I fear nesgirl is one of those people.

Having said that though, I will admit that a more asexual/aromantic type of procreation does seem like a great leap forward in evolution. People spend so much time thinking about relationships, their minds could be better spent. That was proven in the classic Seinfeld documentary where George Costanza gives up sex and becomes a genius. Elaine had a reverse affect though so perhaps their data wasn't sound.... hmmm. Anyway, if you watch as much TV as I have, you'll know that Jerry Springer, Judge Mathis, and COPS always involve relationship issues. Jerry Springer (and all those kind of shows) are exaggerated but those guests on his show certainly don't seem to be high on the evolutionary tree. They fell out of it and got hit with a few "stupid-sticks" on the way down. Judge Mathis (and other court shows) always have to deal with relationship cases and it's eating up valuable court time and resources that can be put to better use. And I don't know how many times COPS had to deal with domestic disputes, I lost count.

You can get a skewed view of the world viewing it through the lens of an idiot-box, and I'm sure the number of wholesome, constructive relationships outnumber the bad ones. They don't make for good television though so we only get a small slice and think it's the whole pie.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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nesgirl
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Re: nesgirl and Summerlander

Postby nesgirl » 11 Jan 2015 00:28

Did you know many people tell me asexuality is wrong, and I should be more like them nearly all the time. I am pressured and bothered about it nearly all the time.

As far as the Lucid Dreams I had in the past, as a matter of fact, I was angry at someone for criticizing me over that. I tend to mutilate my characters in some horrible way if I am in an angry mood swing if I feel the need to vent. My professor was WAY too over-religious in my last class, and would not accept that fact I was aromantic asexual. Pushed me into a romantic project at one point, which really ticked me off (I kept telling him that was against my standards, but did he care? At least my other professors were courteous to other student's standards). This professor was literally pushing his religious beliefs into this class (but didn't reveal he was religious, just being bossy), and was ticking me and some other students off with his anti-violence activism (no black comedy), romance and marriage (but only allowed in marriage), anti-cloning, and the fact he hated gays and asexual people and would insult our behavior, saying it wasn't acceptable in society, nor would he allow the symbolism in our projects. He even referred to my organization as Nazism. So yes I did have a reason to be upset with him and upset overall, and some of the classmates teased me about my orientation because of him. This is why I got angry, and actually wanted to use my media and my Lucid Dream stories to get even on my professor. I can easily manipulate my Lucid Dreams to actually get even or tease someone else if I seriously wanted to.

Exactly. But it seems that nesgirl is quite prepared to convict you of thought crime. And it is interesting how in her stories, such as Amy and Joey, the sexual characters are ostracized, tortured, beaten, punished in many ways, condemned to endure misery for feeling a certain way, which, as you rightly pointed out, Hagart, they don't pick.


I am not going to accuse him of anything. And I only did that to the Greek Deities because they raped the poor mortals. Well don't you think that those accused of rape should be punished?? Also as far as mutilation, I usually only do that when I am in an angry mood, and I sometimes rip heads off, pull out spines, or do some form of evil if my anger mood overwhelms my mind, which I have gotten to the point where it only does that in a Lucid Dream, thank goodness. As far as other violent acts against characters, typically only in anger or hyper moods. If I am in a depressed mood, the characters kill themselves.
As far as comical acts or punishments, any mood.
Joey needed to be separated from Amy. Because the problem is romance on an asexual cannot end well. A person who is asexual may often feel very guilty or depressed if they lost their virginity (heard that from several asexual people on the website). It may even get to the point where a few of them may commit suicide because of that. If Amy kills herself because of Joey's actions, then I hope Joey is satisfied with his mental illness.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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Summerlander
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Re: nesgirl and Summerlander

Postby Summerlander » 11 Jan 2015 03:12

Let's make something perfectly clear here. I don't condone rape and don't think anybody here does either. And as much as people love sex, they also fear it. Offences of a sexual nature are taken very seriously (as they should).

What really irks me about your attitude towards sexual individuals is that you believe they are all sick, flawed in nature somehow. But I argue that people can and have formed sexual, long-term relationships whereby a level of commitment is displayed which shows that romance can work (and the search for partners is pretty much over for the couples who have found happiness).

Evolution has led us down this route, for better or worse. If one day agamogenetic engineering is devised and perfected, and a generation of sexless humanoids proves to be more efficient than homo sapiens, good. But this is our time. This is our nature. We have already been born this way and don't wish to be neutered, thank you. Despite the Springer drama, we have hitherto survived, have we not? Yes, we face overpopulation, but there are other ways to ensure a balance between birth and death rates. Education is also a great boon to improve our lives.

Let me also append that not all geniuses avoided sex in order to concentrate and shine. It is true that Werner Heisenberg and Paul Dirac needed extreme solitude in order to develop their theories, but Schrodinger needed plenty of sexual stimulation, so much so that he often took his lover to a chalet in the Swiss Alps to work and have sex and constructed the matter-wave equation that now bears his name! Yes, a breakthrough in quantum mechanics...

So, what works for some geniuses, doesn't work for others. This sexuality/asexuality business is not as clear-cut as has been portrayed here thus far. Of course COPS will only show domestic disputes. They are not going to show couples who get on just fine, are they?

But Hagart does make a good point in his analysis of you, nesgirl. You do seem to have become, in principle, the very thing, or things, you despise. Sex is still seen as a dirty deed by the pious. Celibacy is still encouraged for nuns, priests, and bishops. Sex outside wedlock is a sin. To even feel sexually attracted to a stranger is already a crime. One cannot help but have certain feelings and thoughts - this is human nature - but religion still discriminates against us. Born sick, ordered to be well (as the Hitch once said). With a little introspection, nesgirl, you will see that this rings a bell regarding your views towards sexuality.

In your view, we are inferior because we feel sexual urges and sexual attraction for others. We are sick. We are repulsive. We are wrong by nature. We are pathetic. And yet, your beloved cats and dogs pretty much have sex like we do (or close enough). So, as you should be able to see, the problem is not so much sex as it is the mental conflicts generated by our highly developed but "slapdash" complex brains, where, to paraphrase the Hitch again, our temporal lobes are too small, our adrenal glands are too big, and our reproductive organs apparently designed by committee (and it shows). We deserve compassion for the features we didn't pick which by themselves alone or in combination can be recipes for disaster.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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nesgirl
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Re: nesgirl and Summerlander

Postby nesgirl » 11 Jan 2015 05:44

Summerlander wrote:Let's make something perfectly clear here. I don't condone rape and don't think anybody here does either. And as much as people love sex, they also fear it. Offences of a sexual nature are taken very seriously (as they should).


Fear it?! I don't think so. Not with it being advertised, used in the media, and flat out people out raping others and often getting away with it. If that weren't the case, people with asexuality would start being governors by now.

What really irks me about your attitude towards sexual individuals is that you believe they are all sick, flawed in nature somehow. But I argue that people can and have formed sexual, long-term relationships whereby a level of commitment is displayed which shows that romance can work (and the search for partners is pretty much over for the couples who have found happiness).

How many relationships have actually worked at all which either haven't ended in divorce, or the female in the relationship isn't treated like some sort of house slave (mostly referring to over a century ago when females didn't have rights)?? Divorce is in fact MUCH higher than it was before in the past. Do you know why that is? Because most romantics rush in and do not give each other the chance to get to know each other. Or some of them are snakes in disguise (like with my sister). And I feel like most romantics rush in too much and are way in over their heads with that mental problem when making decisions and end up making the wrong decisions, and ultimately they pay for it when they end up in the wrong relationship. While in very rare cases a romantic relationship could work, I don't see it happening often enough, because you never know after a while if something should happen after so long, and oftentimes, some of those relationships end in divorce as well. My childhood neighbor 30 years into her marriage had an issue when her husband decided to have an affair, then they divorced, and a couple of people my mother knew had that happen to them as well. Happily ever after? I don't think so.
However with Aromantic Asexuals, when they choose to make queerplatonic friends, they actually think about their choices, and are very cautious when selecting the friend they want to be queerplatonic friends with, often hanging out with that friend with many years, and getting to know them very well. If there is a trust that happens to form well enough, they could become queerplatonic friends. We don't have any mental emotions that make the decision for us. It is ultimately the level of trust that will determine whether someone could become queerplatonic friends or not. This is why aromantic asexuals end up being more successful in their relationships, and they rarely have any issues with breaking up with each other either (I've heard of few who have broken up with queerplatonic relationships).

Evolution has led us down this route, for better or worse. If one day agamogenetic engineering is devised and perfected, and a generation of sexless humanoids proves to be more efficient than homo sapiens, good. But this is our time. This is our nature. We have already been born this way and don't wish to be neutered, thank you. Despite the Springer drama, we have hitherto survived, have we not? Yes, we face overpopulation, but there are other ways to ensure a balance between birth and death rates. Education is also a great boon to improve our lives.

I wish there would be a generation that would prove we wouldn't need romance at all. But because of the way we evolved, I don't know if that's going to happen. And I don't know the fate of the asexual generation. And education does NOT help in the least, it only makes things worse. And nature or not, some people have to learn respect for other people's personal space. There is a courtesy rule about that in public of NOT to invade a person's personal space.

Let me also append that not all geniuses avoided sex in order to concentrate and shine. It is true that Werner Heisenberg and Paul Dirac needed extreme solitude in order to develop their theories, but Schrodinger needed plenty of sexual stimulation, so much so that he often took his lover to a chalet in the Swiss Alps to work and have sex and constructed the matter-wave equation that now bears his name! Yes, a breakthrough in quantum mechanics...

Although it is proven that most often that romance is a distraction. Because Black Triangle Island is a high technology island that improved over the rest of the world because they didn't have that as a distraction. Because they wouldn't need to spend time with a wife, a lover, or children, they would have the extra time to improve technology and their lives that they needed.

So, what works for some geniuses, doesn't work for others. This sexuality/asexuality business is not as clear-cut as has been portrayed here thus far. Of course COPS will only show domestic disputes. They are not going to show couples who get on just fine, are they?

And there are SO many domestic disputes and romantic-related crimes and homicides these days, are there not?? Oh and they do show couples who aren't killing each other actually. Happens all the time, if the female goes into labor right in public, and the police have to be the one to deliver the baby.

But Hagart does make a good point in his analysis of you, nesgirl. You do seem to have become, in principle, the very thing, or things, you despise. Sex is still seen as a dirty deed by the pious. Celibacy is still encouraged for nuns, priests, and bishops. Sex outside wedlock is a sin. To even feel sexually attracted to a stranger is already a crime. One cannot help but have certain feelings and thoughts - this is human nature - but religion still discriminates against us. Born sick, ordered to be well (as the Hitch once said). With a little introspection, nesgirl, you will see that this rings a bell regarding your views towards sexuality.

Not quite the same as my views, I just think it is just disgusting and revolting. First of all, thinking about invading anyone's personal boundaries without their permission is sick, just because of public courtesy rules. Second of all, why not think about what we usually do with those body parts for a second. Dispose of waste. Doesn't that sound a little bit squick to you??

Oh and I don't think that is completely correct for many religions, because otherwise, they are not living by their teachings. Story of Adam and Eve in fact encourages couples to get married and engage in such activities so they can have children and multiply, and was in fact the FIRST commandment (first commandment was romance). This is why I get attacked by religions for being an Aromantic Asexual. Asexual people are oftentimes very persecuted by religious people because of this, and I have seen very rude remarks by religious people, telling them that they need to repent, Asexuality is a sin and they need to get married and have children, or they'll go to hades. So you think you romantics are the only ones who get persecuted by religion? Asexual actually get WAY more persecuted by it than the romantics. In fact, there are a few religions in Utah that really persecute gays and asexual people (the Christian restaurant, Chick Fil Le doesn't support gays or asexuality, just letting you know they actually said that right in Utah). If you happen to be either because of it, those religions will attempt to send you to counseling, saying you are sick, and then will attempt to hook you up on dates to try to "heal" you of your afflictions, regardless of what you feel. They will even attempt to hook up handicapped people with dates, who may or may not understand what is going on.

In your view, we are inferior because we feel sexual urges and sexual attraction for others. We are sick. We are repulsive. We are wrong by nature. We are pathetic. And yet, your beloved cats and dogs pretty much have sex like we do (or close enough). So, as you should be able to see, the problem is not so much sex as it is the mental conflicts generated by our highly developed but "slapdash" complex brains, where, to paraphrase the Hitch again, our temporal lobes are too small, our adrenal glands are too big, and our reproductive organs apparently designed by committee (and it shows). We deserve compassion for the features we didn't pick which by themselves alone or in combination can be recipes for disaster.

But we fix that problem with our beloved cats and dogs by spaying and neutering them, and then they no longer have that problem.
No I don't feel like romantics are inferior, but I feel like because there is the ability of self-control, we should at least try to be able to control their urges.
Because maybe if Joey would control his urges to invade Amy's personal space, maybe the islander's wouldn't be so quick to always kick him off the island all the time. Joey and Amy could become great queerplatonic friends and Joey could live a very good life with Amy treating him very well all the time as a queerplatonic friend and Joey returning the favor. Instead, he keeps getting himself kicked off the island because he tries to invade her space, which isn't tolerated.
Well okay if you do not like my stories of Joey and Amy, why don't you write your own version and battle with me with your stories? Keep in mind that Amy is an AROMANTIC ASEXUAL, and her point of view before you write your version.

Oh and BTW, you should seriously read the Pokémon comment I made in the Megaman thread. Because I made a very serious comment about my Pokémon game on there (why I still post on there).
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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deschainXIX
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Re: nesgirl and Summerlander

Postby deschainXIX » 11 Jan 2015 17:41

@nesgirl


Every thread you're in turns into a debate about this--and yet you cannot be debated, as our good friend Paine pointed out. Analyzing diction is important. It's very interesting that you said "people with asexuality," like it is a disease or something. You simply don't understand the concept of sexual orientation, do you? You're aromantic/asexual for deeply and intrinsically personal reasons. The fact that you would let all of humanity go conclusively extinct before you had sex with a man is very evil and very psychologically revealing. It reveals that this is not really about a legitimate system of ideas for you (like Summerlander's and my anti-religion ideas)--it's about yourself. And whenever anyone makes it entirely about themselves, they instantly cannot be trusted (Hitler hating Jews because they rejected his artwork). Indeed, I think the comparison between your own ideals and Nazism is apropos and totally fair--you both punish and ostracize and actively hate people who happen to be born a certain way and choose to honor that predisposition (perhaps in your society you would have Orwell's Hate Week). No one you've shared this idea with has agreed with you or come over to your side (the asexual on the Megaman Discussions thread wholly disagrees with your asexual political applications), which indicates that either A) you're not communicating well enough or B) your idea is nonsense. Now, since I'm generous enough to respect your rhetorical abilities, I'm airing upon the latter.

Okay... Now, with all our long history of talk, you have not been able to construct a wholesome argument with convincing reasons for sexuality's and romance's socially-damaging flaws. I think you'll agree with me when I say that a condensed version of your argument would be, "Divorce and rape and feminine subjugation are bad!" Divorce is not a consequence of romance--it is a consequence of marriage. A more sophisticated solution would be to say that marriage is unnecessary and religious. I won't be getting married because I don't see the point of it. I don't feel the need to have my love recognized by the church or the government. And if I engage in marriage to have the legal and economic benefits, I will be sure to marry someone who recognizes that marriage is no big deal and in the event of divorce, it will not be damaging. Secondly... there is no dispute that rape is one of the worst things that can happen to a person (I would wholly disagree with you, however, on the point that it is worse than murder and infanticide and genocide and the destruction of the entire universe and the dissolving of the multiverse). But here's the problem: rape and nonconsensual sexual tendencies are what result when romance is subtracted from interpersonal relations. It is the psychopathic side of sexuality, when the infinitely tender beauty of romance has no hand to play and one only sees one's victim as an object to be relieved upon. This is the definition of psychopathy; in absolutely no way does it represent the totality of sexuality--anyone who thinks as such is naive and has the entire world misconstrued. Now, this final piece of evidence truly boggles my mind. How exactly does romance have anything to do with feminine subservience or subjugation? How? Romance is the glorification of another human in one's own mind. When one is succumbed to romance, nothing is more intoxicating than one's partner. As the world progresses and true romance takes the place of unhealthy sexual repression and ignorance, the line between genders continues to blur and women are quickly earning more and more prestige. All the infliction in the past upon women had nothing to do with romance; it was about primitivity and ignorance and (sorry, but it's true) religion.

There is no reason whatsoever to abandon romance or art or entertainment--deeply human attributes that make us who we are and give our existences meaning and beauty and vitality and a deeper, more sensual love for our fellow creatures. No doubt your reply to this truth will be yet another verbigeration or implementation of casuistry.

A few appendices: I am appropriately skeptical of this alleged persecution you claim to receive for your asexuality. I doubt any of that really happens. I myself honor and even admire your asexuality (I'm what's called demisexual, which is halfway asexual--perhaps when you take over the world you'll keep the demisexuals alive but only to keep as slaves), and I have reiterated this fact over and over and over again and YET--you still insist upon flinging your ignorant accusations of myself hating you for your asexuality. And this is not to mention all the other fallacious accusations you constantly make at anyone who even looks at you. You blow your victim-whistle if anyone so much as breathes in your general direction. If people treat you badly, it's more likely that they do so because you treat them badly or behave according to your bipolarism. And, as has been pointed out, you egocentrically hate anyone who isn't of your own sexual orientation, so why are you complaining that anyone else does the same to you?

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Well said.

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HAGART
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Re: nesgirl and Summerlander

Postby HAGART » 11 Jan 2015 20:09

Nesgirl is stubborn and has turned to stone on the matter, hard as adamant, and is too heavy to budge. We've all said our case and this is futile now, just reiterating the same things over and over.

I read the Megaman thread, and nesgirl certainly has a one track mind. I don't know why she suggested we read he Pokemon post and what that had to do with anything, but I did learn something valuable and quite troubling....

THERE'S A THREAD WAR!

The enemy has caught wind of us and are threatening to count to a billion just to be victorious. We need our own weapons of mass verbiage to counterstrike!
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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HAGART
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Re: nesgirl and Summerlander

Postby HAGART » 11 Jan 2015 20:14

nesgirl wrote:Well okay if you do not like my stories of Joey and Amy, why don't you write your own version and battle with me with your stories? Keep in mind that Amy is an AROMANTIC ASEXUAL, and her point of view before you write your version.


Joey accepts Amy's views, build's a raft, paddles to Pornopolis, and everyone lives happily ever after. THE END.

I noticed Erichsa hasn't been online since January 4th, back when this was only 2 pages long. He's going to come back and be shocked, thinking, "Oh, no! What have I created?" :roll:

:lol:
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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deschainXIX
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Re: nesgirl and Summerlander

Postby deschainXIX » 11 Jan 2015 20:35

Maybe we should change our thread title to something more ruminative. "Science and Philosophy" or something? We don't want to limit ourselves though... we want to be able to ramble. I don't know. Anyone have a suggestion? We want to sound more serious than "Megaman Discussions" though. :D

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Well said.


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