Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

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Summerlander
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby Summerlander » 21 Jan 2015 01:43

So am I, deschainXIX. I concur. What is the difference between the two if not a cognitive one - when we observe that the brain exhibits a hybrid phase state in both? In both, you know that you are physically lying in bed (or rested somewhere) while your mind wanders and you have the impression of being somewhere else. (In this sense, in terms of perception, both are out-of-body experiences.)

But, to lucid dream is to acknowledge the hallucinatory nature of the perceived environment - to know that, despite the realism (or hyper-realism), it is all an illusion arising in one's mind.

The astral projector ignores this truth as brain activity means nothing to him and revelry is found in the belief-centric delusion that the dream world, when perceived with waking consciousness, is an astral plane of existence populated by discarnate beings with a mind of their own.

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Peter
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby Peter » 21 Jan 2015 03:00

I have lucid dreamt hundreds of times, have astral projected only once. In astral projection, you are out of your body and in the room where your physical body is


and I have Lucid dreamt thousands of times and by you definition astral projected only many hundreds of times and can switch at will. I can choose one or the other and will do so depending on where I want to start my adventure, in a place I know (my room) of at random for the sheer fun of it.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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hectorjose
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby hectorjose » 21 Jan 2015 04:58

clearly, astral projection has to be experienced to know what it is, all else is just opinion or rationalization by someone who has not had the experience first hand. When it happens (if it does) trust me you'll know the difference between it and lucid dreaming. You'll also realize there's a difference between thinking you know, and actually knowing.

@peter are you saying you can AP and LD... If that is the case (and your not lumping them together as one) then that is pretty cool and i'd like to know more... I have only been able to AP once...i would love to do it again!

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“Once upon a time, I dreamt I was a butterfly. Soon I awoke, and now I do not know whether I was a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man.”
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nesgirl
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby nesgirl » 21 Jan 2015 07:30

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Last edited by nesgirl on 21 May 2015 02:07, edited 1 time in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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Peter
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby Peter » 21 Jan 2015 09:34

@peter are you saying you can AP and LD... If that is the case (and your not lumping them together as one) then that is pretty cool and i'd like to know more... I have only been able to AP once...i would love to do it again!


That is my problem with definitions, I have two points of exit that invlove unbroken awareness Ie; watching myself going to sleep.

in the first instance I will do what I do, relax in certain ways and observe and I will get to the state of directly entering a lucid dream. This is into a place or time that is random although if I want to imagining the sensation of speed or moving into a tunnel will have me on a bike or car or running like mad and directly into the dream

The second is similar except that I will not enter a dream but I will rise, slip, slide of simply get up and walk away and I will walk around my house or across my room and outside. If I choose I will fly around my section and look about until I ask for a new place or take off and see where I go.

IF these body exits to my room are an astral projection then about half of 15 + events a month are astral projections.
I cant pick the difference in the two apart from one is directly into the dream and one will have me standing in my room looking at my sleeping body if I choose to look at it/me

Seriously a few thousand of these mixed events over a lot of years.

Keen to be corrected because if there is an experience that I have not had I will soon fix that if I can
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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DesertExplorer
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby DesertExplorer » 21 Jan 2015 10:04

Summerlander wrote:If you concede that some people astral project without trying, Desert, then you make the admission that intention isn't necessarily required for its induction. Your own observation in response to Peter's perfectly logical question makes your initial proposition oxymoronic and untenable as advice for people who wish to discover the phenomenon.

LaBerge once made an important distinction. In so many words, he pointed out that lucid dreaming is more advanced than astral projection or out-of-body experiences by the sheer fact that lucid dreamers know the score for sure, i.e. they know they are dreaming.

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Again and again! I don't mind. I could say the same thing over and over again, Summerlander if you want.

Regularly, you need to intend to do it, but there are very rare cases of people who don't intend and happens to them just like that without trying. Is this fair enough?

I will say it again if you want me to, until you understand, OK?
Life is hard. Then you die. Then they throw dirt in your face. Then the worms eat you. Be grateful it happens in that order.

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Peter
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby Peter » 21 Jan 2015 15:18

Describe an astral projection for me please, from full awake to in the astral
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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DesertExplorer
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby DesertExplorer » 21 Jan 2015 15:54

If you are talking to me, take a look at that; http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15686
I have already stated there that this is just a belief and I have not seen it with my own eyes.

But, I look forward to accomplish AP and when I do I will let you know of the experience. What about your own experiences?
Life is hard. Then you die. Then they throw dirt in your face. Then the worms eat you. Be grateful it happens in that order.

~David Gerrold

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Peter
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby Peter » 21 Jan 2015 16:35

Ok thanks, my experiences, read a few of my thoughts and statements in this thread. I think they are two ways to enter the same place and this is backed up by sleep recorders that show exactly the same states for each. Direct entry to REM from waking in each case
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Peter
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Re: Difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming?

Postby Peter » 21 Jan 2015 20:27

http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15686


had a look and its no more or no less that a obe exit to a lucid dream. Have done this a lot and yes its cool and loads of fun but just an dream entry by body exit instead of walking into the dream. Most of my lucids are WILD so this or that - makes no difference and ends up in the same place
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born


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