Life and Death

For all other chat which isn't directly related to lucid dreaming and the world of sleep and dreams.
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Derpybunneh
Posts: 89
Joined: 16 Sep 2014 22:27

Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby Derpybunneh » 23 Jan 2015 21:31

DesertExplorer wrote:
Derpybunneh wrote:She even wrote about her experience in the spirit world.

But I wonder. You doubt. There is a huge difference, that you cannot deny.


I don't doubt that much. The only thing I doubt is evolution, and science's incorrect attempts to explain things.
LUCID DREAMS: 5
DREAMS: 9000+

“I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest
deceit in the history of science.” Søren Løvtrup

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Derpybunneh
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Joined: 16 Sep 2014 22:27

Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby Derpybunneh » 23 Jan 2015 21:37

Hey all you believers in the idea of evolution, explain how I became a complex "machine" without a God (there Hagart, I challenged the idea of evolution).

I also suggest you read this article. It explains how evolution is disproved without the Bible:
http://www.ucg.org/science/prove-evolution-false-even-without-bible/

Also:

“I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest
deceit in the history of science.” Søren Løvtrup, Darwinism: The
Refutation of a Myth (New York: Croom Helm, 1987), p. 422.

Listen to this:

"I enjoyed the little tale about the "worlds most prominent scientist getting to talk with God". As the exchange goes; the scientist tells God, "We don't need you anymore, we can even make a man now." God is a bit surprised and asks the scientist to show him. The scientist agrees and arranges his equipment and then goes out to the garden and brings in a pail of earth to put in the machine. God says "Ahem, you must use your own soil, not mine.""
LUCID DREAMS: 5
DREAMS: 9000+

“I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest
deceit in the history of science.” Søren Løvtrup

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deschainXIX
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Location: Virginia, USA

Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby deschainXIX » 23 Jan 2015 22:37

Derpybunneh, you made the confusingly illusory assumption that I was speaking of human potential, when in fact the term I used was divinity. Human potential has nothing to do with it. We are not above all of nature and you provided no reasoning that suggested otherwise, so I reassert my premise: We are no different from the other nameless matter forged in the superheated, hyper-pressurized hearths of supernovae. The advent of the Copernican principle in scientific achievement affirms our cosmic insignificance and infinitesimality.

Why do you think we are divine anyway? Why are we hierarchically above other mammals? You gave no evidence to back up your opinion, of course, but I assume you think we are divine for our intelligence. Intelligence and willingness to cooperate and form societies (allowed by our empathetic natures) have been our greatest assets as a species in the natural history of the earth--ninety nine percent of all of the species ever birthed by our planet have fallen into extinction, and we just happened to come out on top. The meaning of the latin binomial nomenclature we assigned to our species truly reveals how much we pride our intellect. Homo sapien: wise man. Our pattern-searching and -finding natures make us predisposed to the illusion that they’re special. All (relatively) “intelligent” organisms are human, but not all humans are intelligent; that latter is very patent if you ask me. :D Nothing else about the human is special. Our physiologies are poorly constructed and weak and frail just like all other animals.

___

Wait… are we legitimately debating evolution right now? I thought we were smarter than this as lucid dreamers. All the information is easily accessible for you to read, but I can educate you if you like. I’m not quite as forgiving as Hagart of you all’s poignant and myopic rejection of facts.

Not to get too confessional here, but here’s something interesting:
Even when I was devoutly religious and superstitious (I only accepted reality a few months ago; so the whole “You’re just a closed-minded and ignorant skeptic” argument is nonsensical) I embraced science and evolution and the Big Bang because they are our best determinations of reality. And through a series of twisted and convoluted leaps and denial-based casuistry, I thought I could reconcile science with God. But what I found interesting was the people who didn’t even attempt to make reconciliation between evolution and intelligent design, but rather blatantly rejected observational facts. That fascinated me as an ignorant religious person and it fascinates me equally as a realist (or “an atheist,” as the dogmatic would have it).

At this point you’ve dismissed yourselves by demonstrating sophistry through gross misinformation--but I’m willing to educate you.

DesertExplorer, in reference to your “X-Y” piece, I’m not sure why you couldn’t have simply said, “Experiences vary.” Which is an argument that seems to denote the validity of insanity and detachment from reality, commonly known as psychosis. I suppose if we encountered a primal tribe living in an uncharted part of Africa that was gouging out the eyes of every third-born child because they believed a polycephalous daemon would assail the village if they did not, this would be legitimate? By your view, their perspective should be respected and given solace from the light of science and reason.

Those “I went to heaven and came back” testimonies are quite the laughing stock among proficients and pupils alike of the medical academia. Fun fact: to date we have never revived a brain dead person. Death, I’m sorry to report, means the irretrievable deoxygenation of the brain and subsequent cellular apoptosis (although it’s important to note that men and women of medicine often debate over when exactly we should withdraw intravenous and artificial breathing life support on brain dead patients, a process that requires the careful examination and signature from a doctor of neurology; and indeed the vitrification of neural tissue in cryonic preservation might soon become a reality for brain dead patients). That does not include cardiac arrest, in which the brain is quickly failing but still largely functional--and cardiac arrest, incidentally, is the source of most of these stories. In the neuroscientific community it has been theorized that on the threshold of death the brain secretes a series of desperate, last-minute chemicals to induce a hallucinogenic state in which time itself is warped. For all we know, the afterlife does exist subjectively in the sense that at death those final two or three hours in which the brain still has oxidation are exploded into years or even eternities. Time is merely what we perceive it to be, of course, both in the sense of Einsteinian relativity and human psychology. As oneironauts, let us not question the brain’s potency. Illusory afterlives, whose contents are perhaps dictated by the quasi-deceased individual’s expectations of the afterlife, are certainly a possibility in our current deficient understanding of medical neurology.

It’s amusing to me how those who still succumb to superstition (a dying breed, thankfully) are constantly making such obscure, highly dubious position-statements as, “There are records.” In the realm of science, information is universal and all theories and concepts are readily available to anyone willing to learn in peer-edited magazines and articles and books. How variegating and capricious are the queer viewpoints and vastly unsupported claims of the superstitious!
Well said.

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nesgirl
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Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby nesgirl » 23 Jan 2015 22:42

...
Last edited by nesgirl on 20 May 2015 04:50, edited 1 time in total.
Goodbye forever...
I dare you Summer and Deschain, to find where I am hiding, and try to attack.

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HAGART
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Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby HAGART » 23 Jan 2015 22:44

At least your link is an argument better than, "Blah!" :lol:

It has given me some things to think about. I was reading the comments below on that page and they too are divided. I don't know where to start... 2 things puzzle me:

1. All the missing links between species. Why are fossil records of them so hard to find?
(My thought on that right now is that change occurs sporadically, but rather quickly when there's an environmental change. So there can be millions of years of Trilobites but only a few thousand years worth of the missing links. They are EXTREMELY RARE to find. That's one hypothesis I have.)

2. How did atoms form amino acids and the building blocks of life through random chance, and why can't it be done in a lab right now? What's missing? Enough time?
(This one has me perplexed... it might sound like I'm breaking my first rule and talking about the origin of life, but really I am merely asking how do atoms evolve into life?)
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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deschainXIX
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Location: Virginia, USA

Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby deschainXIX » 23 Jan 2015 23:13

Yes! Hagart is asking the important questions. This I can work with. (Derpy, you're still just shouting, "Blah!")

HAGART wrote:1. All the missing links between species. Why are fossil records of them so hard to find?
(My thought on that right now is that change occurs sporadically, but rather quickly when there's an environmental change. So there can be millions of years of Trilobites but only a few thousand years worth of the missing links. They are EXTREMELY RARE to find. That's one hypothesis I have.)


What parts of the diverse fossil record we’ve managed to uncover have revealed irrefutable anatomical homology between species, indicating the succession of forms over time. It's difficult to scour the earth and piece together deteriorating rocks. Darwin didn't really understand molecular biology (it wasn't around in his day), so many were under the impression that evolution through natural selection was a very slow process, but it actually can be very rapid, especially in microevolution, observed today directly in HIV, the cause of AIDs, and drug resistant staph bacteria like MRSA, as I mentioned before. Evolution can come by two theorems, gradualism, which is the traditional view and holds to the idea that small accumulated changes result in either allopatric or sympatric speciation, and punctuated equilibrium, proposed in 1972 by Niles Eldredge and Steven Jay Gould, which holds that evolution consists of long periods of stasis followed by rapid punctuations of change shuttled by catastrophes and geographic shifts, et cetera.

HAGART wrote:2. How did atoms form amino acids and the building blocks of life through random chance, and why can't it be done in a lab right now? What's missing? Enough time?
(This one has me perplexed... it might sound like I'm breaking my first rule and talking about the origin of life, but really I am merely asking how do atoms evolve into life?)


The Miller-Urey experiment is a beautiful demonstration of abiogenesis, in which the primordial conditions of earth were simulated and it was proved that complex, organic, diverse compounds like amino acids can arise from simple, inorganic sludge. Things like hydrogen sulfide and sulfur dioxide and nitrogen, all of which we know by volcanic evidence were around on primordial earth, were used to give rise to more than 20 different amino acids in a laboratory. This was then easily followed by the synthesis of polymers and self-replicating molecules and other protobionts. Which, as we all know, formed prokaryotes which became the organelles (particularly the mitochondria) of the vastly more complicated eukaryotes.


The science is all there, guys. Doesn't take that much work to read and learn.
Well said.

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HAGART
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Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby HAGART » 23 Jan 2015 23:39

I hate reading books. Blah!
I'm glad DeschainXIX condensed the information for me, thanks.

nesgirl wrote:Hey I just changed the title of the thread, do you like it?

I don't see a change and the first poster is still there.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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deschainXIX
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Location: Virginia, USA

Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby deschainXIX » 23 Jan 2015 23:41

Yeah, the topic title didn't change.

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image
Well said.

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HAGART
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Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby HAGART » 23 Jan 2015 23:43

I just realized after looking back. She means she edited her first post. Now it's depressing... :cry:
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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deschainXIX
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Location: Virginia, USA

Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby deschainXIX » 23 Jan 2015 23:44

Did she? That's what I thought, but on my device her title is not changed.

We really should have had this discussion on "nesgirl and Summerlander," not here. Ell well.

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image
Well said.


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