What are your religious views?

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What are your religious views?

Deeply religious - I follow a strict religious code and trust my life to a higher authority
22
19%
Somewhat religious - I believe in a higher intelligence watching over us
38
32%
Agnostic - I'm on the fence; you really can't say either way at this time
29
25%
Atheist - I don't believe there is a higher intelligence watching over us
29
25%
 
Total votes: 118

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Rebecca
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Rebecca » 15 Feb 2012 07:10

Wolvendeer wrote:I don't find the thought scary at all. Provided I'm not buried in a vault like most people are, I am completely fine with winking out and letting my parts go back to mother nature and scatter to the universe. I actually find the thought as comforting as most religious people find the thought of an afterlife. Now, it would be somewhat annoying to be buried in such a way that my body is of no use to anything, but that won't be my concern once the time comes. In my opinion, whatever you believe, you should be comfortable with your end.


I agree with this. Though it does present a paradox.... I mean, I'd like my body to disintegrate and cease to exist just as my mind has - and that means cremation and scattering in the wind. Rotting in the ground takes too long and is a waste of space, I feel. And besides, I don't want to be dug up by archaeologists in 1,000 years' time. But if I'm dead, I'm dead, so I won't really care. It's just the thought of it, while I'm alive, that makes it matter. And there's the contradiction. I really should have no say in it.

My next question is, if you believe you'll continue to exist as a spirit in the afterlife, why does it matter what happens to your physical body? Does it?

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Rebecca
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Rebecca » 15 Feb 2012 07:19

Summerlander wrote:Why do we exist? I have a suspicion...the universe needs us (conscious beings) to observe it and confirm its existence. If there is no consciousness the universe cannot be said to exist. Our purpose? To name everything we encounter in this universe through language (another thing that we developed). We define, we give meaning, that's our job...we work for the universe...we are an expression of this universe...we are the universe. Without the universe there is no you. We are the universe trying to understand itself. We are the universe wondering why the hell it is.


I'd like to ask, if the universe "needs us", how did the universe decide to create consciousness... before there was any consciousness...? ;)

And what about the other 99.999999999999999999999r% of the universe outside of Earth? Do you think there is other data out there which could help us reach a decision about consciousness? Is it too presumptuous to make claims about the whole universe, based on our tiny little microcosm of it?

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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Summerlander » 15 Feb 2012 15:00

Yes, indeed. How did it make that decision? Perhaps the emergence of consciousness was random. Maybe natural even in the sense that the asymmetry of unconsciousness has to exist because it also has a potential.

Maybe there is an underlying level of reality that causes consciousness to arise like a force of nature when the conditions within a physical system are right. Like magnetism and gravity that become apparent but we don't yet fully understand what is going on there so we use theoretical models to try to explain them.

Consciousness seems to be, to me, the most profound and mysterious. Perhaps we are one idea of the universe looking at itself. An idea that simply evolved (consciously or unconsciously) to the point where it can analyse itself and ask questions.

Somewhere else in the universe, there might be other living "ideas". These ideas might have evolved further to the point of understanding far more than what we do. But then again, if they are far more evolved, why would the universe need us, right (when it has a better perspective somewhere else)? Maybe it likes to remember its "childhood". Perhaps we are a memory inside a living being's mind.

I'm sorry. There is a lot of speculation here. Perhaps everything is just for the sake of being. all is for the sake of play. But you hit the nail on the head, Rebecca: how did it all happen?

Perhaps even non-existence is a state of being from its own perspective. Maybe the afterlife (if there is one) is a realm of ideas with a potential to manifest physically. It could even be our home. Lucid dreaming, despite announcing itself in the physical brain, could be a glimpse of where we are going when we die. A world where there are no rules but the ones we make and believe.

On the other hand, death could mean unconsciousness everyone. If that is the case, why worry. We won't experience. There is no you to feel anything.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Ryan
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Ryan » 15 Feb 2012 18:01

Rebecca wrote:I'd like to ask, if the universe "needs us", how did the universe decide to create consciousness... before there was any consciousness...? ;)

And what about the other 99.999999999999999999999r% of the universe outside of Earth? Do you think there is other data out there which could help us reach a decision about consciousness? Is it too presumptuous to make claims about the whole universe, based on our tiny little microcosm of it?

Hi Rebecca,

Have you, by chance, read or looked into Tom Campbell's book, "My Big Toe"?

He has a wonderful theory regarding that very question. :)

He posits that everything is "consciousness", and our individual consciousness is just a part of the whole in order to interact with itself with the primary goal of lowering our entropy. It's a really great read and really opens ones mind to the possibilities.

In response to the topic... I'm atheist. I've been projecting (lucid and astrally) for my entire life and I've never seen anything that would allude to a "higher being/power/whatever" out there. I believe that *WE* are the beings creating our own reality.
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Snaggle » 16 Feb 2012 01:38

Rebecca wrote:
... I mean, I'd like my body to disintegrate and cease to exist just as my mind has - and that means cremation and scattering in the wind. Rotting in the ground takes too long and is a waste of space, I feel. And besides, I don't want to be dug up by archaeologists in 1,000 years' time. But if I'm dead, I'm dead, so I won't really care. It's just the thought of it, while I'm alive, that makes it matter. And there's the contradiction. I really should have no say in it.


Rebecca there are plenty of "chunks" in cremation dust that are not going to blow away in the wind. I suggest you do what my family does after cremation- bury the dust at sea.

My next question is, if you believe you'll continue to exist as a spirit in the afterlife, why does it matter what happens to your physical body? Does it?


There are a number of reasons why it matters:

1. The ancient Eqyptian/Cretan reason that the double would only exist as long as the body- the reason for mummification.

2. The Mazdaic/Jewish/Christian and Moslem belief that one's body will be resurrected to live an eternal life back here in God's new Eden.

3. Medical technology might progress to the point where the dead can be brought back to life and completely restored.
"There is only one God and his name is Death.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel

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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 16 Feb 2012 03:00

Rebecca wrote:
I'd like to ask, if the universe "needs us", how did the universe decide to create consciousness... before there was any consciousness...? ;)

And what about the other 99.999999999999999999999r% of the universe outside of Earth? Do you think there is other data out there which could help us reach a decision about consciousness? Is it too presumptuous to make claims about the whole universe, based on our tiny little microcosm of it?


I don't know the answer, but I like to think about it. Here's what I'm wondering: What if consciousness is the only thing that ever existed and entire universe was created by it, but only exists as a virtual universe? That would be pretty inetesting.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 16 Feb 2012 05:25

Ryan wrote:3. Medical technology might progress to the point where the dead can be brought back to life and completely restored.


Thanks for the heads-up. I'm definitely going with cremation.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Rebecca
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Rebecca » 16 Feb 2012 05:26

Ryan wrote:Have you, by chance, read or looked into Tom Campbell's book, "My Big Toe"?

He has a wonderful theory regarding that very question. :)

He posits that everything is "consciousness", and our individual consciousness is just a part of the whole in order to interact with itself with the primary goal of lowering our entropy. It's a really great read and really opens ones mind to the possibilities.


No but I will look into it!

This is my current view on the conscious universe theory. I'm making an assumption here as I haven't looked into his specific theory yet, which is naughty of me, but....

....is it the same as the popular belief now that the universe is a thinking entity, that re-orders itself to influence your fate?

At face value, this theory doesn't sit well with me. Perhaps it did once, when I was much more spiritual in my approach, but that didn't really give me any useful answers, only more questions.

Questions like this...

As I see it, consciousness is defined as an identity - a collection of experiences, beliefs, attitudes, and interpretation of sensory input. Anything that can freely receive and process data then willfully act on it is conscious, right? That includes humans and animals, and one day computers.

So at this level of understanding, it seems like a big jump for the entire universe - a vast collection of independent inanimate bodies and conscious beings - to be able to behave willfully as one identity. It feels to me like invoking the idea of an omnipotent god, and then saying (s)he's in all of us.

I realize my logic is reductionist but then again that works pretty well for us in many existing scientific models.

If I were to argue pro this theory, I'd say that kidney cells don't know they're part of a kidney, so why should I know I'm part of a super-mega-conscious-being at least 14 billion years old?

But I still have to ask, where is the giant kidney? How can we say it exists.... how did that leap come about?

I do accept that there is MUCH we don't know about the universe... there may be unidentified forces, many more dimensions, and exotic stuff we haven't found yet. So I would not say with 100% certainty that the universe isn't conscious, that would be foolish. But I do believe that this theory is somewhat mystical and that the current data shows no mechanism for it, and I find it unscientific (my core values) to take that leap of faith. But that's just me.

Maybe that's what Tom Campbell's book is about? ;) If you want to elaborate on the mechanism I'm all ears...

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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Rebecca » 16 Feb 2012 05:31

Snaggle wrote:Rebecca there are plenty of "chunks" in cremation dust that are not going to blow away in the wind. I suggest you do what my family does after cremation- bury the dust at sea.


You're right. I have romanticized that idea of scattering the ashes.... I sadly know that you get 45 minutes in the cremation chamber and, especially if you're a big person, then whatever chunks are left of your body get dumped in a pile with all the other leftovers. Don't ask me where that goes. I don't wanna know!

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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Ender_lance » 18 Feb 2012 12:10

im an atheist but if im wrong and "god and heaven and hell exist"
then great i was wrong what can i say im human and think about this if "hell" has to do with sins and when you sin alot you go to hell to be "tortured i mean not to be innapropriate but we have all masturbated at one point which is technically a "sin"


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