Is there experimental evidence for OBEs?

Discuss lucid dreaming techniques including dream recall, MILD, WILD, meditation and other ways of attaining lucidity in dreams.
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Summerlander
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Re: Is there experimental evidence for OBEs?

Postby Summerlander » 26 Feb 2012 21:53

To me, there is no experimental evidence of truly separating from the physical body.
To everyone, there is definitely undeniable proof that LUCID DREAMS happen.

:mrgreen:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

rothgar
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Re: Is there experimental evidence for OBEs?

Postby rothgar » 28 Feb 2012 03:36

I agree. Too many paranormal claims I think detract from the proven REALITY of LDs. It makes it really hard for us trying to convince people we arent nut cases.

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Is there experimental evidence for OBEs?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 28 Feb 2012 04:45

rothgar wrote:I agree. Too many paranormal claims I think detract from the proven REALITY of LDs. It makes it really hard for us trying to convince people we arent nut cases.


I have no problem believing OBE exists and can be experienced, especially in lucid dreams. I believe that our consciousness exists separately from our body so we are naturally OBE, though we are more aware of the separation when we experience lucid dreams.

The problem I have is the people who claim to be able to interact with our physical world while out of their bodies, such as reading numbers in sealed envelopes, predicting the future, seeing things on the floor in someone's bedroom, etc. While this may be possible, no one has been able to prove it scientifically to my knowledge.

What I'm wondering is that if our reality is a construct and so is our OBE reality, it would make sense that one would not be able to connect the two, since in a sense, neither exist. :D
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Summerlander
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Re: Is there experimental evidence for OBEs?

Postby Summerlander » 04 Mar 2012 16:10

The problem I have is the people who claim to be able to interact with our physical world while out of their bodies, such as reading numbers in sealed envelopes, predicting the future, seeing things on the floor in someone's bedroom, etc. While this may be possible, no one has been able to prove it scientifically to my knowledge.


Bedeekin of Astral Viewers was making claims like this all the time. Not too long ago, prior to that site being suspended, he had claimed that he could alter physical reality by making changes to the non-physical. This is one of the reasons why I lost all respect for him. That and the fact he declared that interpreting these experiences as being all in one's mind is not interesting enough. Putting two and two together one realises that individuals such as these make phenomenal claims in order to attract attention unto themselves.

Meanwhile, the majority of oneironauts find their deeds unattainable and arrive at the conclusion that it must be due to not yet having achieved the mastery status that the charlatan has claimed (directly or indirectly) to have achieved.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: Is there experimental evidence for OBEs?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 04 Mar 2012 17:59

Summerlander wrote:Meanwhile, the majority of oneironauts find their deeds unattainable and arrive at the conclusion that it must be due to not yet having achieved the mastery status that the charlatan has claimed (directly or indirectly) to have achieved.


Right. The fact that the charlatan can't prove it means nothing to someone who believes it anyway because they also want to be able to do it. Proof is not a requirement, in fact logical reasoning becomes an obstacle. This is great for the "master", since they can always blame the "student" and of course, continue to sell more of their instructions until the student gets tired of paying. It's a great business model, but not much more than that.

I have nothing against believing in things that can't be proven and do it myself. But it bothers me that people are getting tricked into paying these charlatans to learn things that they are not doing.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Summerlander
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Re: Is there experimental evidence for OBEs?

Postby Summerlander » 05 Mar 2012 20:13

Absolutely. I mean, some things that have not been proven can still be true, like telepathy and precognition having more potential or becoming more available in lucid dreaming. Lucid dreaming could also still be a glimpse of an afterlife too. No proof of claims like these but it doesn't mean they are not the case.

What riles me are not the theories because theories can provide interesting paths to knowledge. What really really gets on my tits are those who claim it is so with absolute certainty and no concrete evidence or proof and then blame/accuse others of not doing it properly when they innocently and honestly report that they did not arrive at the same conclusions or did not get the same results.

This, I feel, is exactly what goes on in circles like the TOE. There is a lot of that going on there and peer pressure coming from the usual suspects. Generally speaking, if some don't see it or even challenge their promulgated views, they are accused of being ignorant, lost, or that the knowledge is beyond their league. They can only see the "little picture". Such condescending ways are typical of cults. They go as far as trying to make you believe that there is something wrong with you. Sad... very very sad.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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