Demonic Figures and OBE's

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Falxhor
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Demonic Figures and OBE's

Postby Falxhor » 19 Mar 2012 19:05

So lucid dreaming has become quite popular and commonly known as something amazing.
When I first read about it I wanted to try it and experience those lucid dreams.

However, when I read that when you get into sleep paralysis you can get hallucinations of creatures in your room I started to get very scared.

I've talked to many people experiencing the most horrifying things while in sleep paralysis and I've talked to many people explaining it the same way.

What commonly happens is that you see a black creature or, presence if you will, sometimes looking human, sometimes not looking human, watching at you when you're in sleep paralysis. People have even experienced being touched (or attacked) by these presences.

Theories started to come forward. I believe in demonic figures, lost creatures finding a body to exist in. I know many people believe in this and many people are too scared of the idea to admit it. I will be direct to the point: When in sleep paralysis, if you go to the next stage; OBE (out of body experience), is it possible you can lose your body to another figure seeking for a body to exist in?
Also, is there any danger in OBE's, lucid dreaming, and experiences of the kind? Also, how can one explain the horrifying creatures standing at the foot end of your bed when you're going into sleep paralysis?

These are things I want to have answered before I throw my soul into places I don't want it to go, leaving my body available and unprotected.

Axalto
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Re: Demonic Figures and OBE's

Postby Axalto » 19 Mar 2012 21:35

I will not force my believes on you but I do not think there is any danger with lucid dreaming or OBEs.
The figures you see are completely made by your subconscious and cannot take over control over you.
"Once you fix something, they'll forever reagard you as Computer Genious. If it reaches this point you're pretty much screwed." -The Oatmeal

Falxhor
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Re: Demonic Figures and OBE's

Postby Falxhor » 19 Mar 2012 22:09

Ok that might be true and according to this site it is true.

My next question: How do I prevent it from scaring the shit out of me?

Axalto
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Re: Demonic Figures and OBE's

Postby Axalto » 19 Mar 2012 22:25

I don't know. They will appear as real to you. I myself never experienced it. I guess you will have to find a way to convince yourself that they're not real.
"Once you fix something, they'll forever reagard you as Computer Genious. If it reaches this point you're pretty much screwed." -The Oatmeal

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Arcadian
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Re: Demonic Figures and OBE's

Postby Arcadian » 20 Mar 2012 01:20

I once had the same fear and doubts you have before I started to experiment with OBEs and lucid dreams. I can tell you from experience my conclusion on this matter.

I'm a spiritual person so I believe good and evil entities exist. I also know a friend who is an insomniac due to the reoccurrence of demonic hypnagogia she has. However, my enthusiasm for lucid dreaming drove me to pursue it despite the possibility of a night terror happening to me.

I've had two negative/evil/demonic Hypnagogia associated with OBEs and sleep paralysis during my LD life, and this is what I concluded:

Your expectation has a HUGE role in causing them. The two negative hypnagogia experiences occurred in the very beginning when I started practicing the WILD/WBTB LD methods. This is the time I had the most fear of it happening to me. Because you experience vibrations using these methods, you can easily become scared when it happens. These vibrations can sometimes be deafening! I've experienced nothing as bizarre like it before, so my first reaction was fear. I don't see how anyone can not become at least some what frightened when they first experience them. Even if you know what to expect, it can catch you off guard until you get used to them.

So when I first felt the vibrations, I freaked out. And of course, my mind projected my fear onto my dream landscape of my bedroom. (During vibrations you are transitioning into the dream world. If you are focused on your body than you will dream your current environment). I'll describe my two evil hypnogogia experiences at the end of this post, but let me say that once I learned that my mindset determined the experience, I quickly gained confidence that there is nothing to fear but fear itself. You need to be confident that you will experience a fantastic LD. After each of my negative hypnagogia I stopped altogether for about 2 weeks to regain my motivation to try again. It paid off. Now when the vibrations come I welcome them because I know it's part of the process and it's safe. They very rarely frighten me, and when they do nothing bad happens.

I think that a demon gaining control of my body is a little far-fetched. No one can prove it can or can't happen though. My personal belief is that the evil entities I experienced where only there because I allowed them to be. Were they real or made up? I dont know. But I do know that they only gain power over you if you let them. They prey on fear. When you doubt, it opens the door up to them. You need to have a positive mindset when you try this stuff if you are that worried about it. Until you get this positive mentality, I'd stay away from practicing LD via the WILD/WBTB because you will project your fears on your dream landscape. It's totally worth it though when you get there :)

In the meantime, just work on your reality checks during the day so you can spark some DILDs (dream induced lucid dream)

OK

Evil Hypnogogia #1
When I first felt sleep paralysis and vibrations it frightened me. I had even planned in advance and put the covers over my head so that I wouldn't see any evil presences if it did happen. It didn't stop my fear from affecting me though. I felt a pair of hands at the end of my bed grab my covers and slowly start to pull the covers off my face. I panicked so much that I woke up/snapped out of it before I got to see what it was.

Evil Hypnogogia #2
Again, I became frightened over an unusual tense vibration. A cat jumped on top of me and started to hiss violently as it scratched my face 3 times. It was loud and it actually hurt. I panicked so much that I snapped out of it. There were actually 2 other people sleeping in the room with me at the time, but they didn't notice anything. This one disturbed me for a few weeks and I left LDs alone.

How many AWESOME and memorable LDs have I had since? Dozens. I would gladly re-live those two negative hypnogogia experiences again to be where I'm at now. Of course I say that now, but when I'm in the bed at night I'll think differently hahahaha. But seriously, I think it's worth it. You just gotta have a positive mindset and not give fear any attention. It's all in your head.

***I edited an error on this post to replace "night terror" with "negative hypnogogia"***
Last edited by Arcadian on 27 Mar 2012 07:02, edited 1 time in total.
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ingestiblebulk
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Re: Demonic Figures and OBE's

Postby ingestiblebulk » 20 Mar 2012 03:25

this is actually something i've been wondering about. i'm aware that people having night terrors, even if they know they have night terrors, will believe that the things they see are real. However, I'm under the impression that this is something a little bit different, since it's something that you do to yourself. My question is this: were you aware that it was a hallucination?

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Arcadian
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Re: Demonic Figures and OBE's

Postby Arcadian » 20 Mar 2012 04:46

ingestiblebulk wrote:this is actually something i've been wondering about. i'm aware that people having night terrors, even if they know they have night terrors, will believe that the things they see are real. However, I'm under the impression that this is something a little bit different, since it's something that you do to yourself. My question is this: were you aware that it was a hallucination?



It's different for me because I choose to believe it's not a real evil entity, but something my mind created. Even though I knew it wasn't real during the seconds that they occurred, it didn't stop me from being frightened because it just caught me off guard. If I knew I was dreaming then it would be a different story; I would just defeat it by some means or ignore it altogether.

However, it was hard for me to tell if I was in the dreaming state or not because I was still lying in bed thinking about becoming lucid when all of a sudden an evil cat startles me out of no where or a dude starts to pull the covers off me (creepy as mess when you are not ready for it!). So this crap happens before you have secured the mindset of "I'm dreaming and everything I see is in my head."

If it were to happen to me again, I suspect I wouldn't be as freaked out because I've experienced it before. I think people who suffer from night terrors repeatedly do so because they think what they see is real, and therefore have a good reason to be frightened. What also makes this hard to battle is that usually with these terrors you cannot move so you are at the evil entities' mercy unless you've reached the point where you are comfortable with them and truly understand they cannot harm you.
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Ryan
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Re: Demonic Figures and OBE's

Postby Ryan » 24 Mar 2012 22:54

Night Terrors, something that I've been having since I was a child (I've been lucid dreaming for as long as I can remember, although I haven't had many in the last few years now, I'm 32 btw), are what I believe and call an "overlay" experience. I've learned to just live with them... not much phases me at night anymore. Basically, your non-physical (aka dream reality) experience is overlaying slightly over your physical reality experience when you wake up.

When you wake up at night or in the morning, you're still slightly not entirely "here" (here being this physical reality)... your consciousness is still "there" (there being the non-physical) a bit. There's a bleed-through that happens from time to time.

This bleed through is what we refer to as a Night Terror.

For me, it's been the sight of seeing (mostly) figures standing around in my room upon waking. Mostly at night, since the backdrop of the darkness really makes it stand out greater than a lit room. The "light" tends to focus your consciousness more into this reality at a quicker pace, reducing the chance of an overlay from happening.
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Summerlander
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Re: Demonic Figures and OBE's

Postby Summerlander » 25 Mar 2012 04:12

They are not night terrors, Ryan. Night terrors are something completely different. That is something that my daughter used to have and when asked what terrified her she didn't actually know.

The "old hag syndrome" as some call it is something else. The amygdala in the brain, which is associated with emotional states - in particular fear, becomes active and could be triggered from the conscious experience of muscle atonia.

What happens is that you will feel vulnerable while paralysed and this will immediately tend to bring unconscious and often irrational fears to the forefront. When you are lying in bed paralysed and you are aware of it, almost as a defence mechanism, your mind will let you know the worst things that could happen in the "hope" that it will pump more adrenaline which will enable your nervous system to break the atonia.

Here are a few examples of scary scenarios that seem real: you get monsters in your bedroom (this one is probably the closest to the id as we can get), intruders in the house that want to kill you (I have experienced this one several times while lying in bed next to my wife), and people that break in and kidnap your kids (not surprisingly, this one happened when I napped on the sofa next to my youngest son and then tried to enter the phase).

At the time I wondered why I would experience such a thing about my son during sleep paralysis. Then, after mulling over it, I understood why: in the back of my mind, at the time, the worst thing that could happen was if someone took my son while I was vulnerable. The mind made it real. I heard my kid scream and cry for help while I lay there terrified and strangely lucid, knowing it wasn't real - yet unable to shake the fear!!

On demons, and I will say this with utmost conviction: they do NOT have an actual existence. It is in your mind.

On physical and non-physical: There is no non-physical. There is only the physical and illusions. All experience happens in the mind. As Stephen LaBerge once said: "Perceiving is dreaming true. Dreaming is perceiving free". The universe is exactly the way it should be when one studies it and goes on the assumption that there is no God and at the same time there is no evidence whatsoever of astral planes, spirit realms and ghosts. None whatsoever. If there was, in two centuries of great technological development, we would have established their existence by now. Of course, draw your own conclusions - provided that you are using good reasoning - and by no means take this as gospel. All experience happens in the mind... both the awareness - with all its senses - of the external world... as well as the inner one.

In other words, to be clear on what I'm saying here, the same mental "clay" (analogous laymen's term) we use to model the world based on sensory input, is the same one used to create dreams. In the latter, the models stem from thinking, the unconscious mind and imagination - rather than sensory input. No wonder then why we have most of our vivid dreaming during the REM stage... it is when we are closest to the waking state and when the mental clay is most active (during sleep) and getting ready for wakefulness. Of course, in the case of lucid dreaming, we can prevent ourselves from waking up and we are able to mould the clay if we want...

There you have it.
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Ryan
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Re: Demonic Figures and OBE's

Postby Ryan » 25 Mar 2012 17:44

Summerlander wrote:They are not night terrors, Ryan. Night terrors are something completely different. That is something that my daughter used to have and when asked what terrified her she didn't actually know.

Thank you for your opinion Summerlander, but I disagree with it.
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