Demonic Figures and OBE's

For general lucid chat - ask questions, share advice, set lucid dream challenges and explore the lucid realm together.
User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 3651
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Demonic Figures and OBE's

Postby Summerlander » 25 Mar 2012 19:15

What exactly do you disagree with and why, Ryan? Sleep paralysis is closely related to the hypotonia that occurs in REM sleep. Night terrors occur in a different stage of sleep altogether (even though both are linked to narcolepsy).

The reason why different names are used is to make certain distinctions. To me, night terrors are more commonly associated with low glucose in the blood and more of a disorder than sleep paralysis. The latter can be induced by individuals especially when they want to have out-of-body experiences or wake-initiated lucid dreams and when the brain is hungry for REM.

If you want to elaborate on why you disagree with this, be my guest. I'd be interested to read it...
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

User avatar
Arcadian
Posts: 57
Joined: 02 Nov 2011 22:30
Location: Mississippi, U.S.

Re: Demonic Figures and OBE's

Postby Arcadian » 26 Mar 2012 05:05

Summerlander wrote:What exactly do you disagree with and why, Ryan? Sleep paralysis is closely related to the hypotonia that occurs in REM sleep. Night terrors occur in a different stage of sleep altogether (even though both are linked to narcolepsy).

The reason why different names are used is to make certain distinctions. To me, night terrors are more commonly associated with low glucose in the blood and more of a disorder than sleep paralysis. The latter can be induced by individuals especially when they want to have out-of-body experiences or wake-initiated lucid dreams and when the brain is hungry for REM.

If you want to elaborate on why you disagree with this, be my guest. I'd be interested to read it...


After looking up the common definitions for night terror, I have to say I was wrong with using the term night terrors to define the hallucinations I had associated with sleep paralysis. Thanks for clearing this up Summerlander. I'll edit the term I used to something else...Is there a term that labels the hallucinations with sleep paralysis?

As for your statement saying "there is no non-physical"...This may be true, but it doesn't rule out demons and spirits. Who's to say spirits are not physical?? I'm sure you will agree with me that there are dimensions and physical concepts the human mind cannot grasp (quantum physics for example, and other physics like different dimensions that we cannot see). We can't rule out the possibility that demons, spirits, etc., are not part of a physical realm we cannot comprehend. That's where I stand on the issue, so I tend to be more agnostic and open minded towards both sides of the arguments for and against spiritual beings.

Technically you're right, the term "non-physical" is flawed in itself. So I think spirits, demons, etc., should be included in the physical category and not as non-physical. Your thoughts?
False Awakening
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii6DArXj2V0

Check out more videos on my Youtube page!

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 3651
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Demonic Figures and OBE's

Postby Summerlander » 26 Mar 2012 19:46

Is there a term that labels the hallucinations with sleep paralysis?


Hypnagogic and hypnopompic hallucinations. They often accompany sleep paralysis. Meanwhile, paralysis is not always perceptible when you experience these types of hallucinations.

As for your statement saying "there is no non-physical"...This may be true, but it doesn't rule out demons and spirits. Who's to say spirits are not physical?? I'm sure you will agree with me that there are dimensions and physical concepts the human mind cannot grasp (quantum physics for example, and other physics like different dimensions that we cannot see). We can't rule out the possibility that demons, spirits, etc., are not part of a physical realm we cannot comprehend. That's where I stand on the issue, so I tend to be more agnostic and open minded towards both sides of the arguments for and against spiritual beings.


That is a very fair statement. The term "non-physical", as you said, is indeed flawed. If there is an afterlife, it is more likely to be part of the physical reality than anything else, and this may well involve hidden dimensions. I often imagine that thoughts are part of another frequency of reality yet to be discovered by science. We may be in a similar situation that we were before when we thought that what we heard was all there was in terms of sound waves. Now we know that isn't true because new gadgets have revealed to us the reality of ultrasonic frequencies beyond the range of human hearing.

Could the realm of thoughts be a a frequency of reality yet to be technologically detected? Is this the realm we visit when we have lucid dreams? Is consciousness quantum mechanical in nature? It sounds feasible to me when the apparent nature of dreams is closer to "quantum logic" than human logic.

As for demons... no. In my experience I have never truly been harmed and I have been able to change, control or get rid of all demonic candidates. I came to the realisation that their existence is nothing but a subjective one. To me, demons are a made up concept. Even more ridiculous is the name "negative entities". Why negative? In fact, as I've found out, such characters present us with positive prospects of self-integration than anything else. They can help you to understand where you stand, to tackle your issues and face your fears. All evidence seems to point towards dream characters that represent aspects of ourselves in need of attention.

On spirits, there is not a shred of good or reliable evidence out there. Science hasn't detected anything like that either. What would a spirit be made of when we can't even find evidence of a "self" in the brain or anywhere else in the body? Please note that, just because I say I don't believe in spirits doesn't mean I rule out the afterlife hypothesis. I'll explain why...

There may be an afterlife - but, if that's the case - it seems more probable that we die, become unconscious, and re-emerge as another lifeform with no recollection of the previous life. We'd start from scratch, empty-minded, like a baby, and thus consciousness perpetuates the mystery of life and death.

In my theory (which I believe is the strongest one - and I hope I'm not being presumptuous here), there is no spirit that leaves the body and roams free to reincarnate at a later stage. No. There is no need for this and this scenario is not evident. There is only the universe experiencing itself through us. We are the universe observing itself. When a being dies an idea has expired in the anthropological perspective of conceptual reality.

Intrinsically, our awareness is the same. There is only one awareness emerging through different organisms or physical systems. In the end, the dying being is only returning to the pre-birth state and the universe may pop its awareness back into existence. Like the subatomic particles in the purest of vacuums! It might even take a million years for the universe to pop you back into being after death... from your perspective, the passage of such a period of time never was if during it you were absent from life.

If I'm wrong about spirits then I will hold my hands up, but, as you said, and I agree, they will be part of a physical system. There is no such thing as "non-physical" as the term is somewhat oxymoronic. The metaphysical term is more acceptable but never pertaining to anything actual, and if it doesn't really act it cannot affect the physicality of existent systems in any way. You see where I'm coming from?

Meanwhile, as I have stated before, the same "mental playdoh" that makes the perception of physical reality possible is involved in the reality of dreams.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

Axalto
Posts: 29
Joined: 13 Mar 2012 23:41

Re: Demonic Figures and OBE's

Postby Axalto » 26 Mar 2012 21:25

I'm sorry but as someone who sees himself quite educated in the scientific fields I have to say that seeing Quantum Physics as ungraspable by the human mind a rather negative view, I prefer using "a challenge".
"Once you fix something, they'll forever reagard you as Computer Genious. If it reaches this point you're pretty much screwed." -The Oatmeal

User avatar
Ryan
Posts: 548
Joined: 07 Aug 2011 19:47
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Demonic Figures and OBE's

Postby Ryan » 27 Mar 2012 02:00

Arcadian wrote:After looking up the common definitions for night terror, I have to say I was wrong with using the term night terrors to define the hallucinations I had associated with sleep paralysis. Thanks for clearing this up Summerlander. I'll edit the term I used to something else...Is there a term that labels the hallucinations with sleep paralysis?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_terror
Do your experiences sound anything like that description?

Most notably:
Children who have night terrors are usually described as 'bolting upright' with their eyes wide open and a look of fear and panic on their face. They will often scream. Further, they will usually sweat, breathe fast and have a rapid heart rate (autonomic signs). Although it seems like children are awake during a night terror, they will appear confused, be inconsolable, and will not always recognize others.

Because that fits my experiences rather well. I'd quite often actually get out of bed as well still having the episode. I've been known (in the past, not anymore) to actually try to "attack" whatever it was that was causing the episode.

As for your statement saying "there is no non-physical"...This may be true, but it doesn't rule out demons and spirits. Who's to say spirits are not physical?? I'm sure you will agree with me that there are dimensions and physical concepts the human mind cannot grasp (quantum physics for example, and other physics like different dimensions that we cannot see). We can't rule out the possibility that demons, spirits, etc., are not part of a physical realm we cannot comprehend. That's where I stand on the issue, so I tend to be more agnostic and open minded towards both sides of the arguments for and against spiritual beings.

Technically you're right, the term "non-physical" is flawed in itself. So I think spirits, demons, etc., should be included in the physical category and not as non-physical. Your thoughts?

Physical and Non-physical seem to be, in my experience, only a perspective.

My "projections" (dreams, lucid dreams, astral projections, etc) all feel VERY physical... while I'm having them, this physical reality could definitely be considered non-physical at the time. While likewise, while I'm experiencing this physical reality, the "projection" reality can be considered very non-physical.

I quite often, while projecting, test my environment for stability and... realness? lol
I used to be quite astounded at the time when I realize just how "physical" everything feels. I'm becoming less and less amazed now though. lol

All a matter of perspective. I prefer to just consider it an experience. I actually prefer simplifying it even further to "here" and "there". "here" being this reality... and "there" as being any reality I'm consciously experiencing that isn't this one.
For more information, please visit my website
http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/
Or join my forums!
http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/forums/

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 3651
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Demonic Figures and OBE's

Postby Summerlander » 27 Mar 2012 13:51

Axalto wrote:I'm sorry but as someone who sees himself quite educated in the scientific fields I have to say that seeing Quantum Physics as ungraspable by the human mind a rather negative view, I prefer using "a challenge".


I concur.

That's not only very honest of you, it is good advice too! Many of us can be put off by quantum physics because many of its aspects seem inexplicable. There are, however, minds who find it interesting, challenging and envisage how its understanding gives rise to potential benefits.

We need minds willing to crack the code even though we are a part of the system we are studying. Making measurements often disrupts the clear picture we crave for and this is part of the problem... or challenge... maybe what seems puzzling now is actually providing us with answers.

It may mean that we need to forsake certain principles that we held on to for so long. This LHC Higgs business might provide the revelation that we need - either our standard model is simply wrong, or, we need a fresh new perspective or the puzzle is complete.

If we apparently discover that the universe paradoxically runs without an "engine", then scientists and philosophers alike need a serious conference to discuss their options.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


Return to “General Lucid Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest